X-Men: First Class
Jun. 23rd, 2011 01:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ishtar79I finally (FINALLY) saw X-Men:First Class!
There was so much hype and squeeing about this around fandom, I was worried it would not be as good as I'd built it up in my head. And it wasn't.
It was better.
I knew going in that the thing I would be most picky about would be Magneto. Not only have I been a huge fan of the character for close to two decades now, but I was especially enamored with Ian McKellen's take. In other words, Fassbender had some pretty big shoes to fill. And man, did he ever!
His Erik was just flawless. There was something inherently menacing about him, a threat of violence and undercurrent of barely suppressed rage...and the moments when he did unleash it, it was both “fuck yeah, Magneto” and kind of terrifying, because I could really believe he turns into the villain capable of committing some downright horrifying acts in...well, any X-canon. But while the need for vengeance is a major aspect of the character, it is by no means the defining one. Above all, what drives Erik is fear and a need for control. He may start off the movie chasing Nazis around the globe and Shaw in particular for what he did to his mother and him, but as the movie progresses his agenda becomes much larger than that. He won't allow history to repeat itself for his fellow mutants, and in order to distance himself as much as possible from the helpless victim he once was, he attempts to make himself bigger, more powerful, untouchable. Which is why him making declarations like “we are the better men” (or my personnal favourite line of Magneto's, from X2: “You are a God amongst insects”) aren't just hubris (though there's plenty of hubris in the character), but a defense mechanism.
And the charisma, oh, the charisma. Magneto might be one of the most powerful mutants in the Marvelverse, but the real threat comes from the fact he inspires people to follow him. In comics canon, Magneto has had loyal minions, an honest-to-God religious cult worshipping him, and even a pop culture following based around the “Magneto was right” premise. And this film did a brilliant job of showcasing why. He finds just the right buttons to push depending on who he's talking to, whether it's compelling arguments, inspirational rhetoric, the right application of fear and, of course, his other superpower of the intense, smouldering gaze. It doesn't ultimately work on the person he's most interested in bringing over to his side, but given Charles' lingering affection for his old friend and the multiple second chances he's given Magneto in the comics despite everybody's advice (fun comics fact: at some point in the 80s, he left Magneto in charge of his students), you'd have to conclude it kind of works on Charles too.
On the topic of Charles, and before this post turns into a giant love letter to Magneto in any medium, McAvoy's Xavier was kind of a revelation for me. I have plenty of affection for Professor Charles Xavier, but something about the him always made me unable to adore the character on the visceral level I do others. Possibly the young age I got into the X-Men, which meant that I always referred to him as “Professor Xavier” in my head and the thought of him in any sexual way was like thinking of my parents having sex. And while Patrick Stewart imbued his character with the appropriate dignity, compassion and gravitas, McAvoy brought something entirely new to the table-he made him fun. There was something about happily enthusiastic geeky, unapologetically arrogant (Charles knows he's the smartest/most powerful person in the room, and he's not shy about sharing that) and incorrigibly flirtatious young Charles in that pun scene I found so disarming. Not that the character lacks the inherent Xavier qualities I described before, along with an almost naïve youtful optimism, but they're complemented with a playfulness that makes him just as charming as Erik, albeit in a different way, and demonstrates why people live and die by Xavier's dream.
As for their relationship...you know, I have so much legitimate love for the expanded X-Men canon, I was ready to write a review focusing on their friendship and its fallout without my slash goggles, except for the life of me, I can't figure out how to talk about the movie without assuming that they are utterly and hopelessly in love. There's slashiness and fanservice, and then there is this (somewhere, even S1 Smallville Clark and Lex are going “Wow, turn it down a notch!”). It's not that comics canon doesn't often treat those two as former lovers, both visually and thematically (Erik holding Charles in a tender embrace of love and desperation? Was how the whole “Magneto in charge of Xavier's students” 80s storyline was set up). It's just that in comics, those moments were spread out over decades of drawn-out plots, retcons, ressurections, alternate universes and some truly unfortunate fashion choices. Put back-to-back in one movie makes the subtext so blatant, it is visible from space.
Knowing how the story ends made watching their developing friendship bittersweet at times, because Charles and Erik together are truly a force to be reckoned with. They complemented each other in every way, from their personalities to their power set, down to to Charles helping Erik learn better control through the power ofslash telepathy. Really, there was no chance in help prospective students could say no to these two (with one noteable exception). It was never going to last, of course-their philosophies are fundamentally different, though the tragedy of it all is they're both wrong. Charles' faith in the good in humanity was disproved the moment the fleets turned their weapons against them, but neither is Erik's megalomaniac rhetoric and tactics the answer (though Charles actually trying to stop him from exploding said fleet by using that old “just following orders” chestnut had me wondering when exactly during the battle he hit his head). So yes, absolutely DOOMED, though I loved that even after they had turned on each other, it didn't change how they felt: Erik rushing to Charles' side when he fell, all else forgotten, and Charles pointing out what Erik did to him without accusation and giving Raven permission to go with Erik-not exactly convincing as arch-nemeses, were they? And I'd like to thank the film makers for bookending the relationship with Charles holding Erik underwater and Erik holding Charles at the end-because the undertones were clearly a bit subtle otherwise.
Some random thoughts on the rest of the movie:
-I don't think I'll ever love any incarnation of Mystique as much as I did Raven here. I'm so used to seeing her as this badass, in charge, extremely competent assassin, watching her be at turns insecure, posturing and hungry for acceptance from others and ultimately herself (and satisfyingly watching her achieve the latter) was very interesting. Little!Raven and Little!Charles were the CUTEST, and I loved their pseudo-incestuous vibe throughout, though her ultimate decision to throw her lot with Erik was understandable (and not just because of that kiss). While there's no denying Charles genuinely loved her, he clearly failed at providing her the unquestionning acceptance that Erik did (though depending on whether you place this in the same continuity as X3, joining Erik will eventually bite her in the no-longer-blue ass).
Also, I need some Charles/Erik/Raven fic in my life, because all the combinations of the above have mad potential.
-I'm still not sure how I feel about them making Moira a) an American and b) a CIA agent, but Rose Byrne's performance definitely sold this Moira for me. I loved how she refused to be especially impressed by Charles, whether it was her rolling her eyes at his seduction routine or accepting his abilities in a matter of fact way.
-Sebastian Shaw was...odd. Nothing against Kevin Bacon's perfectly serviceable performance, but something about the character, his motivation and power set made it impossible for me to do the usual ignoring of comics canon to enjoy the film. I think it was that it had just enough similarities to canon (the name Hellfire Club, his relationship with Emma complete with casual sexism, his power set to an extent) that it made the glaring differences (Seriously, Nazis? Nuclear Holocaust? And since when does Shaw's power mimic Bishop's?) hard to ignore.
-I cheered when Erik killed him (with that coin) and rolled my eyes at Charles' dissaproval. Seriously, the man tortured him and killed his mum, to say nothing of almost brought on a nuclear winter, let's step off that high horse for a second, shall we? I did notice that despite his protests, he didn't exactly release Shaw while Erik did his thing.
-January Jones was sadly disappointing in this role. Emma Frost might be icy, but she's also devious, sharp-tongued, and extremely, blatantly sexual in a way she consciously uses to achieve her ends. Even back in her Hellfire days, before she became a free agent and truly stepped into her own, the woman was never not menacingly seductive. What we got onscreen was essentially Betty Draper in lingerie.
-And now I see what the movie racefail I've seen references to comes from. Seriously, out of the two members first class of color, one of them dies in five minutes and the other inexplicably joins Shaw in a heartbeat (though my personal crack theory is that poor Angel clearly thought the recruitment scene was a set-up to some threesome fun, and felt cheated when it didn't).
-And seriously, why go through all the trouble to dig up such relatively obscure characters (Darwin has only been around since the mid-00s, and it took even a huge Marvel geek like me five minutes to place Angel, since she was only a bit player who was in X-MEN for five minutes in the early 00's before going on to join the all-around bad idea and shortlived New Warriors. And she was a teenage runaway, not a stripper).
-Speaking of obscure, I actually had to look Riptide up. Seriously, this movie felt like a geek test I failed.
-I did like what they did with the rest of the students. I have to know, are the kink memes filled with “Hank/Alex, footjob” prompts? I'll feel oddly let down by fandom if they're not. And Sean as a teenager was kind of hilarious, considering that he's older than Xavier in his first Uncanny X-Men appearance (fun comics fact: Banshee canonically dates Xavier's ex Moira in the comics, and then has drawn-out UST with Emma Frost. Yes, that Emma. No wonder the kid was so cheerful!)
-I guess now that Azazel and Mystique are both on Team!Magneto, they can get with the business of conceiving Nightcrawler. /comic geek>
-I have to say, linking Hank's Beast transformation to Mystique was one of the changes in the movie that made a lot of sense. In the comics, Hank messing around in the lab causes his furrification, but involving Mystique was a stroke of genius-BLUE FUR!
-Erik's homicidal rampages were sexier than they had any right to be.
-Favourite visual gag: the Russian military officer unknowingly starring in a one-man lovefest while Emma has a snack while looking bored. And Charles and Erik's initial “...” reaction to the sight was the cherry on that cake.
-Funniest overall moment: “Go fuck yourselves”. ILU, Wolverine, never change!
There was so much hype and squeeing about this around fandom, I was worried it would not be as good as I'd built it up in my head. And it wasn't.
It was better.
I knew going in that the thing I would be most picky about would be Magneto. Not only have I been a huge fan of the character for close to two decades now, but I was especially enamored with Ian McKellen's take. In other words, Fassbender had some pretty big shoes to fill. And man, did he ever!
His Erik was just flawless. There was something inherently menacing about him, a threat of violence and undercurrent of barely suppressed rage...and the moments when he did unleash it, it was both “fuck yeah, Magneto” and kind of terrifying, because I could really believe he turns into the villain capable of committing some downright horrifying acts in...well, any X-canon. But while the need for vengeance is a major aspect of the character, it is by no means the defining one. Above all, what drives Erik is fear and a need for control. He may start off the movie chasing Nazis around the globe and Shaw in particular for what he did to his mother and him, but as the movie progresses his agenda becomes much larger than that. He won't allow history to repeat itself for his fellow mutants, and in order to distance himself as much as possible from the helpless victim he once was, he attempts to make himself bigger, more powerful, untouchable. Which is why him making declarations like “we are the better men” (or my personnal favourite line of Magneto's, from X2: “You are a God amongst insects”) aren't just hubris (though there's plenty of hubris in the character), but a defense mechanism.
And the charisma, oh, the charisma. Magneto might be one of the most powerful mutants in the Marvelverse, but the real threat comes from the fact he inspires people to follow him. In comics canon, Magneto has had loyal minions, an honest-to-God religious cult worshipping him, and even a pop culture following based around the “Magneto was right” premise. And this film did a brilliant job of showcasing why. He finds just the right buttons to push depending on who he's talking to, whether it's compelling arguments, inspirational rhetoric, the right application of fear and, of course, his other superpower of the intense, smouldering gaze. It doesn't ultimately work on the person he's most interested in bringing over to his side, but given Charles' lingering affection for his old friend and the multiple second chances he's given Magneto in the comics despite everybody's advice (fun comics fact: at some point in the 80s, he left Magneto in charge of his students), you'd have to conclude it kind of works on Charles too.
On the topic of Charles, and before this post turns into a giant love letter to Magneto in any medium, McAvoy's Xavier was kind of a revelation for me. I have plenty of affection for Professor Charles Xavier, but something about the him always made me unable to adore the character on the visceral level I do others. Possibly the young age I got into the X-Men, which meant that I always referred to him as “Professor Xavier” in my head and the thought of him in any sexual way was like thinking of my parents having sex. And while Patrick Stewart imbued his character with the appropriate dignity, compassion and gravitas, McAvoy brought something entirely new to the table-he made him fun. There was something about happily enthusiastic geeky, unapologetically arrogant (Charles knows he's the smartest/most powerful person in the room, and he's not shy about sharing that) and incorrigibly flirtatious young Charles in that pun scene I found so disarming. Not that the character lacks the inherent Xavier qualities I described before, along with an almost naïve youtful optimism, but they're complemented with a playfulness that makes him just as charming as Erik, albeit in a different way, and demonstrates why people live and die by Xavier's dream.
As for their relationship...you know, I have so much legitimate love for the expanded X-Men canon, I was ready to write a review focusing on their friendship and its fallout without my slash goggles, except for the life of me, I can't figure out how to talk about the movie without assuming that they are utterly and hopelessly in love. There's slashiness and fanservice, and then there is this (somewhere, even S1 Smallville Clark and Lex are going “Wow, turn it down a notch!”). It's not that comics canon doesn't often treat those two as former lovers, both visually and thematically (Erik holding Charles in a tender embrace of love and desperation? Was how the whole “Magneto in charge of Xavier's students” 80s storyline was set up). It's just that in comics, those moments were spread out over decades of drawn-out plots, retcons, ressurections, alternate universes and some truly unfortunate fashion choices. Put back-to-back in one movie makes the subtext so blatant, it is visible from space.
Knowing how the story ends made watching their developing friendship bittersweet at times, because Charles and Erik together are truly a force to be reckoned with. They complemented each other in every way, from their personalities to their power set, down to to Charles helping Erik learn better control through the power of
Some random thoughts on the rest of the movie:
-I don't think I'll ever love any incarnation of Mystique as much as I did Raven here. I'm so used to seeing her as this badass, in charge, extremely competent assassin, watching her be at turns insecure, posturing and hungry for acceptance from others and ultimately herself (and satisfyingly watching her achieve the latter) was very interesting. Little!Raven and Little!Charles were the CUTEST, and I loved their pseudo-incestuous vibe throughout, though her ultimate decision to throw her lot with Erik was understandable (and not just because of that kiss). While there's no denying Charles genuinely loved her, he clearly failed at providing her the unquestionning acceptance that Erik did (though depending on whether you place this in the same continuity as X3, joining Erik will eventually bite her in the no-longer-blue ass).
Also, I need some Charles/Erik/Raven fic in my life, because all the combinations of the above have mad potential.
-I'm still not sure how I feel about them making Moira a) an American and b) a CIA agent, but Rose Byrne's performance definitely sold this Moira for me. I loved how she refused to be especially impressed by Charles, whether it was her rolling her eyes at his seduction routine or accepting his abilities in a matter of fact way.
-Sebastian Shaw was...odd. Nothing against Kevin Bacon's perfectly serviceable performance, but something about the character, his motivation and power set made it impossible for me to do the usual ignoring of comics canon to enjoy the film. I think it was that it had just enough similarities to canon (the name Hellfire Club, his relationship with Emma complete with casual sexism, his power set to an extent) that it made the glaring differences (Seriously, Nazis? Nuclear Holocaust? And since when does Shaw's power mimic Bishop's?) hard to ignore.
-I cheered when Erik killed him (with that coin) and rolled my eyes at Charles' dissaproval. Seriously, the man tortured him and killed his mum, to say nothing of almost brought on a nuclear winter, let's step off that high horse for a second, shall we? I did notice that despite his protests, he didn't exactly release Shaw while Erik did his thing.
-January Jones was sadly disappointing in this role. Emma Frost might be icy, but she's also devious, sharp-tongued, and extremely, blatantly sexual in a way she consciously uses to achieve her ends. Even back in her Hellfire days, before she became a free agent and truly stepped into her own, the woman was never not menacingly seductive. What we got onscreen was essentially Betty Draper in lingerie.
-And now I see what the movie racefail I've seen references to comes from. Seriously, out of the two members first class of color, one of them dies in five minutes and the other inexplicably joins Shaw in a heartbeat (though my personal crack theory is that poor Angel clearly thought the recruitment scene was a set-up to some threesome fun, and felt cheated when it didn't).
-And seriously, why go through all the trouble to dig up such relatively obscure characters (Darwin has only been around since the mid-00s, and it took even a huge Marvel geek like me five minutes to place Angel, since she was only a bit player who was in X-MEN for five minutes in the early 00's before going on to join the all-around bad idea and shortlived New Warriors. And she was a teenage runaway, not a stripper).
-Speaking of obscure, I actually had to look Riptide up. Seriously, this movie felt like a geek test I failed.
-I did like what they did with the rest of the students. I have to know, are the kink memes filled with “Hank/Alex, footjob” prompts? I'll feel oddly let down by fandom if they're not. And Sean as a teenager was kind of hilarious, considering that he's older than Xavier in his first Uncanny X-Men appearance (fun comics fact: Banshee canonically dates Xavier's ex Moira in the comics, and then has drawn-out UST with Emma Frost. Yes, that Emma. No wonder the kid was so cheerful!)
-I guess now that Azazel and Mystique are both on Team!Magneto, they can get with the business of conceiving Nightcrawler. /comic geek>
-I have to say, linking Hank's Beast transformation to Mystique was one of the changes in the movie that made a lot of sense. In the comics, Hank messing around in the lab causes his furrification, but involving Mystique was a stroke of genius-BLUE FUR!
-Erik's homicidal rampages were sexier than they had any right to be.
-Favourite visual gag: the Russian military officer unknowingly starring in a one-man lovefest while Emma has a snack while looking bored. And Charles and Erik's initial “...” reaction to the sight was the cherry on that cake.
-Funniest overall moment: “Go fuck yourselves”. ILU, Wolverine, never change!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 12:08 am (UTC)This, very much. I've loved Magneto, but I've had a crush on Erik for a while now, so fangirling him doesn't surprise me. How much I loved this fun and flawed version of Xavier, Otoh, was a very nice surprise. ♥
Oh, also so much agreement on what you say about Magneto and all the posturing as defence mechanism ♥
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 08:20 am (UTC)And yes, it's such an odd thing, suddenly finding Xavier fun/hot, isn't it? Erik is always wonderful (er, if one choses to ignore certain WTF comics arcs that is).
And yeah, that fear/trauma from his childhood is still affecting everything Erik does.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 03:36 pm (UTC)YES!
(er, if one choses to ignore certain WTF comics arcs that is).
which never happened. Or were done by a clone/robot *nodsnods*
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 03:50 am (UTC)I can't see the end of this movie as The Breakup, though, just A Breakup.
And Raven! How I adored her!
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 08:23 am (UTC)I hadn't read any comments from the stars or directors when I wrote this review last night, but I am not even a little surprised that's how they played it.
And of course it's not a permanent breakup! Like it ever is in the comics?
Raven was fantastic.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-22 11:13 pm (UTC)But Hank looked too much like a castmember of cats :P That was my only real beef.
Hubby reminded me, "He was young. This is before he got his toilet together..."
;D
no subject
Date: 2011-06-22 11:17 pm (UTC)LOL at your Hank description. There's a reason now. In the comics, the character underwent had his genetic structure altered by something called a secondary mutation, which shifted his normally more ape-like appearance to a feline form.
In other words, comics are crack and I'm a massive geek. But I like your husband's explanation too.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-22 11:21 pm (UTC)That's all I have to say, since I haven't seen it yet (and I stopped reading your review when I got to the territory of real spoilers!)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-22 11:22 pm (UTC)And yeah, watch it, it's EXCELLENT.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-22 11:47 pm (UTC)I do like to think that Charles' disappointment at Erik killing isn't so much that he'd really disapprove of Erik for killing the guy (he does basically hold the guy down so he can do it, even when the coin's going through his own head) but sadness at seeing that Erik is always going to believe that's the way to go. (Charles just gets proved wrong all over the place here.) He's not actually powerful enough to undo years of the Holocaust to get Erik to just let it go.
For some reason one of my favorite pieces of fanart for the pairing I've seen is a big shark with a single tear running down its face. On top of the shark is a little mouse petting him with a little mouse paw and saying, "Shhhh."
The director has apparently just come out and said he considered himself to be making a doomed romance so...yeah, that's pretty much what that is.
January Jones was totally Betty in lingerie. The flat affect works so well for me on Mad Men because she always seems like a little girl playing dress up in her mom's clothes, which is perfect for Betty. But here it was just flat and inappropriate.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-22 11:54 pm (UTC)I do like to think that Charles' disappointment at Erik killing isn't so much that he'd really disapprove of Erik for killing the guy (he does basically hold the guy down so he can do it, even when the coin's going through his own head) but sadness at seeing that Erik is always going to believe that's the way to go. (Charles just gets proved wrong all over the place here.) He's not actually powerful enough to undo years of the Holocaust to get Erik to just let it go.
Oh, I agree with you there, and Erik *does* cling to vengeance like woah (there was story about him arranging the murder of an ex-Nazi in comics earlier this year, ffs!), but in this particular case, I don't think how anybody could let this go.
For some reason one of my favorite pieces of fanart for the pairing I've seen is a big shark with a single tear running down its face. On top of the shark is a little mouse petting him with a little mouse paw and saying, "Shhhh."
Heh. I don't suppose you still have the link.
This director quote both delights me and doesn't surprise me one bit.
And yeah, this film really made me wonder about January's acting abilities.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 12:14 am (UTC)There were all these random things that kept jarring, Kevin Bacon completely hamming it up, which was fun, but felt odd against Fassbender's bleak drama, January Jones being completely dreadful (and gah, the diamond CGI was an eyesore), the occasional dumb pun like Charles joking about going bald. And the big action in the end was both bizarre as a concept (Mutants in the Cuban missile crisis, lifting submarines out of the water, my head) and I don't know, was the CGI bad, was the whole thing badly shot and edited, it really felt rather free of tension, until Charles got shot, and things got interesting again.
I think the lighthearted and serious elements blended better in X1 and X2 as they were both more toned down, and the script flowed better, here they kind of worked against each other. But nevertheless, the heart of the story was the relationship between Charles and Erik, and that was brilliantly developed and acted.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 08:10 am (UTC)Like I said, Kevin Bacon really didn't work for me, though the Cuban missile crisis kind of did in an odd way. I think because this was an origin story, and those books started off in the sixties, where concerns like the Cold War were pretty common in superhero comics (and there were hilarious plotlines like Iron Man fighting Commies).
I loved X1 and X2 (though the less said about X3, the better), but I adored this one on a whole other level, despite the other two featured more of my favourite characters.
But nevertheless, the heart of the story was the relationship between Charles and Erik, and that was brilliantly developed and acted.
We can agree on that much!
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 12:17 am (UTC)I was thrilled (and surprised) by Wolverine's brief appearance (so perfect)
and I enjoyed the Hank/Beast transformation (I loved Kelsey Grammer's performance and I really thought he caught the 'young' Beast without ever telegraphing that that is who he was, so I was very surprised and pleased).
I loved the 1960s technology look of the thing... it was very consistent and beautifully done... It has a very nice 'early James Bond' look to it...
The only big disappointment to me was Emma Frost:http://embers-log.livejournal.com/271636.html
(I agree w/Brian Lynch that January Jones is a fembot)
this character should have been so much more interesting and unforgettable!
sigh
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 05:49 pm (UTC)The 60s era fit oddly well with the era the comics actually first came out, so that was cool.
Haha, January Jones is SO a fembot! I really like her as Betty, but now I'm thinking that the extent of what she can do.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-24 01:14 am (UTC)I only saw a couple of episodes of Mad Men and I did think that Betty Draper was a little too blatantly a Stepford Wife... but this performance as Emma Frost just convinced me that she isn't a very subtle actress (maybe I'm being too hard on her... ).
But pretty much I was happy with the casting and the performances, and I would enjoy seeing it again.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 12:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 05:50 pm (UTC)Disturbing, yet mesmerizing.
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Date: 2011-06-23 02:15 am (UTC);D
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Date: 2011-06-23 05:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 02:52 am (UTC)I wonder how good Bacon's language skills really were.
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Date: 2011-06-23 05:54 pm (UTC)I've read mixed reviews of his German (to my "barely knows some German" ear, it sounded heavily accented, but not as bad as I've heard some people speak it), and EVERYONE's Russian was horrid. Fassbender's French was excellent, there's no way he doesn't speak it.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 05:58 pm (UTC)... Fassbender's french sounded pretty much fluent to me, too.
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Date: 2011-06-23 06:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 05:56 pm (UTC)I loved the film, but I did feel a little cheated by the ending. I felt all this time and money and energy had gone into selling me a movie-canon origins and setting up the personal relationship between Erik and Charles and making it *work* only to yank it away again so soon. I guess when I heard there would be an "origins" trilogy, I wanted to see so much more of that relationship, its development over the years, the foundation of the school, etc.
But other than that it was great and I suppose a film that leaves you wanting more is a good film! That said, I classify any film with 5 seconds of Wolverine as a good film :-)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-23 06:25 pm (UTC)And aww, I like poor Wolverine, overexposed as he is.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-27 05:35 pm (UTC)Anyhow, I love your thoughts on it. On the first viewing, I was like JFC Charles, you need to deal with him killing Shaw, just deal. On the SECOND viewing, I was like oh. Wait. My read on that scene is that he isn't really objecting to killing Shaw as much as he's kind of in Shaw when the coin kills him, so the experience of living through this guy's brutal death (at Erik's hands) is a mindfuck Charles wasn't keen on signing up for.
though Charles actually trying to stop him from exploding said fleet by using that old “just following orders” chestnut had me wondering when exactly during the battle he hit his head
Which leads me to think that after Shaw, Charles is just massively off his game anyway. He wanders out of the sub and is very blank and already seems so defeated (obviously the helmet issue is a huge issue at that point) and while it doesn't excuse his huge argument!fail, I think it explains it a little. He's basically having the worst day ever and Erik is very much lost in and caught up in his own momentum.
That was my take anyway. Ha.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-27 09:01 pm (UTC)Oh, I like your theory about Charles being off his game after experiencing Shaw's death. It explains his weaksauce arguments at the beach better than...well, anything, really.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-27 09:11 pm (UTC)I've seen some super hilarious little comics done about that scene on Tumblr. Charles's epic argument fail was... epic.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-27 09:17 pm (UTC)[info]seperis posted a bunch of thoughts on the movie and figured Charles gave Raven a little push during that beach scene, which I've totally folded into my head canon as well.
I can totally see Charles justifying that action in his head. His ethics are...interesting.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-27 09:20 pm (UTC)I think Charles does a lot of really morally dubious things which endears me to his character, especially this young him. I can't imagine him being so comfortable with the amount of mindfuckery he engages in unless he actually practiced on (undeserving) people before the events of the film.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-27 09:26 pm (UTC)I think Charles does a lot of really morally dubious things which endears me to his character, especially this young him. I can't imagine him being so comfortable with the amount of mindfuckery he engages in unless he actually practiced on (undeserving) people before the events of the film.
YES. Both on the appeal of morally dubious characters and on young!Charles mindfucking people left and right.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-04 10:57 pm (UTC)I saw this movie weeks ago, but for all its obvious failures (oh, that dialog) the fact that it's basically three movies in one (great tragic romance of Charles/Erik, hammy cartoon-movie by Shaw-Frost-Cuban Missile crisis et co, and teen movie) makes it oddly enjoyable since we can just pick out the preferred narrative.
There's no one "bad-boy" in this movie as I've read a movie review term the story. BOTH Charles and Erik comes off as well-meaning but morally dubious characters. They're truly bookends of the same soul, and even Charles' rage at Erik killing Shaw seemed more like an aftereffect of having the coin go through his own head WITHOUT prior (academic) discussion not because Charles killed him. Part of his desperation to get the helmet off seem to belabour that point. It's early days, apparently they haven't learned how to communicate via words yet...And the lingering pain of Erik's test of friendship definitely had unforeseen circumstances.
I think Charles does a lot of really morally dubious things which endears me to his character, especially this young him. I can't imagine him being so comfortable with the amount of mindfuckery he engages in unless he actually practiced on (undeserving) people before the events of the film.
Just wondering about how he might've gotten his *practice* is vaguely mind-boggling and very disturbing. There's also a sense of Victorian philanthropy about him that I loved. It's still early 60s, the Progressive Era is on the cusp, Xavier is making the first move. There will be mistakes- the final divide is still very much Majority vs. All Others, but there's Raven went with Charles' blessing which could only occur if Charles begins to possess the ability to understand not to merely "know" a point other htan his own.
(The team line-up is very random though.OTOH, it means they wouldn't detract from the whole Erik-Charles-Raven narrative..)
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Date: 2011-07-05 11:21 am (UTC)I can understand people not loving Magneto themselves, but how can anyone miss the fact that no matter how you cut it, he's a fascinating character?
And I agree the movie was trying to be too many things at once, but one thing that kept it from being a jumbled mess (*coughX3cough*) was the strength of the central narrative of the Charles and Erik relationship.
The shades of grey in the movie (with the exception of Shaw, who's more of a plot device than a character) were definitely one of my favourite aspects of this.
It's early days, apparently they haven't learned how to communicate via words yet...
That's bound to change once Claremont gets his hands on them! *g* Seriously though, Charles was kind of hilariously bad at all non-telepathic communication.
Just wondering about how he might've gotten his *practice* is vaguely mind-boggling and very disturbing. There's also a sense of Victorian philanthropy about him that I loved. It's still early 60s, the Progressive Era is on the cusp, Xavier is making the first move. There will be mistakes- the final divide is still very much Majority vs. All Others, but there's Raven went with Charles' blessing which could only occur if Charles begins to possess the ability to understand not to merely "know" a point other htan his own.
There's a charming naivete about Charles in this that I imagine will be somewhat tempered in the sequels. I agree that him letting Raven go is a major shifting point.
And the team is ridiculously random. Banshee and Beast are the only obvious choices, though part of me enjoyed the highly unlikely character interactions.