OMG

[ishtar79]

Regarding JKR outing Dumbledore…

Honestly, I did a double take and wondered if I was still dreaming when I read that.

Yes, I still believe that Important Character Information should be included in the books as opposed to divulged in interviews. Yes, I admit my second reaction (after picking my jaw off the floor) was “…but like the manipulative bit, we sort of knew that already’. Yes, an even better reaction to a major gay character in a children’s book would be a gay character in a happy or at least requited’ relationship in a children’s book. *In the actual text*, even.

But I’m leaving aside all those quibbles because even if a portion of the millions of children who read this book worldwide hear of this, if it makes it makes them think about the fact that one of their favourite figures in the book is a gay man, if this makes it more ok to be gay or more accepting of gay people….well. This is HUGE.

And man oh man, the HP book-burning Christian Right is gonna be PISSED.

Comments

[aewyn7.livejournal.com]

That’s a good point about the kids reading this interview. I had the same “but why isn’t this in the books?” reaction, but if there’s someone who becomes more accepting of gay people because a character they like is revealed to be gay that’s of course great.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Both points are valid imo. The Media Studies graduate and the slasher in me are currently struggling in my head-but still, so far the squee seems to be winning.

[artystone.livejournal.com]

It isn't in the books because I really, honestly don't believe she "always thought of DD as gay." I don't think she thought of DD as anything, it just came off a a convenient way to get an ovation out of some of the battier corners of fandom. Her original audience, the kids who have followed the books since they started, don't give a crap. Really. In fact, just to prove that point, when my son, who has followed the books one by one since he was about 7, gets home, I'm going to tell him what Jo just said.

I'll report back, but I know his reaction will be, "So? That's gay."

"gay" here being the teenage version of the term meaning, "why the fuck should I care?"

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Any children getting their moral messages from HP are already irredeemably lost.

Ugh, she's so embarrassing. Give me credit for my PC attitude and worship me, fandom!' (that stupid-ass faux-naive 'Oh, really, you find that interesting? I know about fanfiction!' crap made me wince) 'even though I don't have the balls to include this in the book in case the book-burners I keep proclaiming I'm not bothered by boycott me and I only make £28590395943005 this year instead of £28590395943006!'
If it was a straight couple, something as huge as one person being in love with the other (UNREQUITED, THOUGH - one gay person is enough for any world, less actual sex occurs. In love is one thing, sodomy is quite another!) who then, like, turns into Hitler and who has a life-or-death battle with the first might actually be something that should be included in, you know, the book.
(In comparison, Snape's Luff for Lily is now his entire personality.)

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not denying for a second that the motivation AND timing of this revelation is suspect, and that she could have done SO much more.

But I do think that a character of the biggest children's series currently being acknowledged as gay, even outside the text, is a big deal. Also, something to rub in the face of the next idiot who cries "But slash has no place in a chiiiiiiildrun's book!!11!!"

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

"But slash has no place in a chiiiiiiildrun's book!!11!!"

She's pretty much backing up their argument, though. It's not like she gave it a place in the book. She can say that it was always in her mind, but her interviews are meaningless in the long run. (Hell, we've already heard that Ron became an Auror, but also worked at the joke shop; and that Luna either got together with Rolf Scamander or Neville, who may have got together with Luna, but didn't because he married Hannah Abbott.) If she truly had this in mind all along (which I seriously doubt), she had the chance to include it and truly make a stand. Instead, she tries to have her cake and eat it, by trying to get kudos without taking a risk morally, artistically or financially.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Oh, her interviews ARE a huge contradictory mess, but let's just put it this way-I saw three separate 'Rowling outs Dumbledore' threads in non-fannish (or remotely HP related) forums I frequent, though somehow there was a suspicious silence on Ron's future career, or Neville's marital status.

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

She's pretty much backing up their argument, though. It's not like she gave it a place in the book.

Yeah. (But it seems the interviews led you to ship Dudley/Cho? Now I do too, so :DDDD)

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

LOL! *bags ship captainship*
Well, pretending her interviews are actually thought about, apparently Cho marries a Muggle, and Dudley marries and has children, and Dudley's children are close to Harry's even though the cousins aren't themselves, which would seem to imply they got close somewhere other than at their parents homes. Like at Hogwarts!
Plus, I flove Cho and Dudders on their own already, and it'd be awesome to see Ginny sitting through a million Xmases etc with hubby's ex.

[elanor-x.livejournal.com]

Totally agree with you. I wrote about this attitude being faux-naive and annoying in my post too, with my assumptions what would happen had she made Dumbledore, Voldemort or Harry gay in the books (different things with each of them). Imho, it would be much worse than making £28590395943005 this year instead of £28590395943006!

[artystone.livejournal.com]

Any children getting their moral messages from HP are already irredeemably lost.

Amen, sister.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

"And man oh man, the HP book-burning Christian Right is gonna be PISSED."
Yeah, it isn't like she was ever going to win them over anyway, and I did think it was pretty much implied in the book. So at least THIS time she was confirming something in an interview that we all kind of knew. As apposed to so many other interviews where she told things about what happened in the fight and how people died, which were not hinted at in the book at all (I have not forgiven her for killing my favorite characters without letting them at least have a moment, even just an after the fact moment of someone who saw them fighting).

sigh

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know the Christian Right would never like the EVIL HP books. It's just that the thought of their rage amuses me. :D

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

LOL
yes, I am delighted at the thought of their gnashing their teeth, because they can't ban the books any harder than they already have!
I'm actually very happy about this interview (I've really thought all her other interviews have been incredibly stupid).

[ackonrad.livejournal.com]

YOU LIKE AND YOU'RE HAPPY AND OMG THANKS GOD THERE IS YOU WHO WANTS TO JUST ENJOY THE INFORMATION WITHOUT GETTING PISSED OFF OVER IT NOT BEING SAID IN THE BOOKS!

If there is something that will get me back to HP fanfiction, it will be Dumbledore/Grindelwald epic fic, really.

♥ ♥ ♥

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

*twirls you around the room*

Hey, just because we can be critical as hell doesn't mean we have to be critical as hell about *everything*. :P

[didi75.livejournal.com]

I agree with you! I mean, it would have been great to see it in the books, but it was sort of implied and I'm really glad she chose to say it in such a huge forum.

We don't really know what she intended, or if this was part of the overall story from the moment she mentioned Dumbledore's battle with Grindewald. We'll never really know, so why insist one way or another? I think it's better late than never! Plus, these books are going to be around FOREVER, and every generation of kids is now going to read them with this in mind. I think that matters.

I wonder if this bit of info will make it into the HP encyclopedia? That will surely make it canon.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Hm, I'm not yet sure of the extent to which I would consider the Encyclopedia canon (if at all), but yes, it would be awesome if this info is included.

I suspect that the Dumbledore/Grindelwald wasn't a part of her Big Plan from the beginning, but like you said, there's no way of knowing for sure. I'm just glad we got this info, even this late in the party. :)

[nemesister.livejournal.com]

YES YES YES, I have already seen at least one post from a depressed homophobe. This is all sorts of awesome.

I said Albus/Gellert was obvious in canon and I'm sure as not going to change my mind now. There is some little feeling of regret that if it was a huge tragic love story it could have been spelled out more in the book, but mostly there is euphoria. And I don't think that Dumbles' gayness in itself would have needed to be spelled out more. He just was.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

And I don't think that Dumbles' gayness in itself would have needed to be spelled out more. He just was.

DUDE, TOTALLY!

It's not that I don't understand the complaints of people on the timing/venue/lack of inclusion in the books. I even think some of them are legitimate-but right now, nothing can wipe the goofy grin from my face.