Hands by your sides at all times, GeekBoy!

[ishtar79]

Having been offline for a few days, I nearly missed this.

I’ve read people eloquent/analytical/intelligent posts. I *get* the anger, discomfort and feminist!rage, believe me. It’s just that in this instance, I can’t quite share in those feelings because I can’t get over how pathetic the whole thing is. Very much in the vein of “Watch me attempt to use Big Words and Pseudointellectual Arguments to justify my secret desire to have a RL Hugh Hefner experience.”

Seriously, this is the demographic that casting Sci-Fi babes in catsuits panders to. Have those ‘men’ ever actually been around a real, flesh and blood women outside a convention setting? And if so, how have they avoided being maced/beaten up/ torn limb from limb by an angry mob?

Bless. Perpetuating the “Geek men can never get even a little bit of sex” stereotype.

But before I go, three semi-serious points:

-There’s nothing radical or remotely original about the idea of men taking liberties with various body parts of female complete strangers. It’s happened to me a few times this year alone, and amazingly enough? It hasn’t showed me how Special And Incredible my body is or gotten me in touch with the source of my feminine power or some shit. It has gotten me in touch with the part of me that’s prone to unexpected violence and swearing like a sailor though, so that’s something.

-Others have pointed it out, but it cannot be said enough: a women acquiescing to a bigass crowd asking to fondle her tits does NOT equal consent! To illustrate with a personal anecdote, I once had the dubious pleasure to have my bottom patted by no fewer than 20 football fans coming out a game. The fact that I acted oblivious instead of cursing them out/hitting them over the head with my book-packed bag didn’t mean I wasn’t shaking with rage or secretely ‘flattered’ at their appreciation of my rear end or whatever. It only means that I let my self-preservation instinct at the face of a fucking mob quash all other impulses.

-And on that note, said crowd was mostly comprised of pimply teenagers that I know wouldn’t have attempted that shit had any of them run into me by themselves in the street, but were emboldened by the numbers, alcohol and testosterone and mob mentality. If you truly think that your little groups of emotionally stunted horny geeks going around on their breast-fondling mission won’t get ‘out of hand’, you’re not only as clueless about female psyche as you’ve aptly demonstrated, you’re also clueless about men.

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

LOL! I know-it's just...everything about this just seems so...yeah, I've seen that before. No, you're not doing anything radical. No, I'm not buying that boobs=art. (I recall there's an attempt made to say "You just want to touch them...like the way you'd step closer to admire a masterpiece painting!" Yeah, because teenaged boys are always inching closer to the masterpieces. You just can't keep them out of the museums. Especially the paintings of nudes!)

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

It's like when my high school took us to an experimental theatrical performance of Hamlet, and one of the witches went topless-the boys in the front row nearly broke their necks trying to get a better glimpse of her, er, masterpieces. Boys LOVE culture! (Of course, then Hamlet proceeded to sing a song in the nude and we girls gained an appreciation for culture. And that was a *weird* play).

The whole thing is so ridiculous.

[helkamaria.livejournal.com]

A-fucking-men.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I'm *so* glad there's a shortage of hetero men in our corner of fandom!

[q-spade.livejournal.com]

I totally know what you mean re: self-preservation and dealing with XY chromosome mob psychology. That used to happen at club gigs & concerts all the fucking time, asshole guys feeling up female crowdsurfers or those of us up against the barrier at the front row. And the mentality is WELL YOU'RE THERE, AND YOU CAN'T STOP US, BITCH! It's angry, not sexual – it's about power, asserting dominance.

I cannot believe the entitlement issues this guy has – I'm so glad he's getting his arse handed back to him on a platter.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

It really *is* about power. And the self-preservation instinct totally takes over but oh, at times like this I almost wish I had some sekrit martial art skillz. Or superpowers.

[q-spade.livejournal.com]

And the thing is...this whole geeky fanboy "CAN I TOUCH YOUR BOOBS?" scenario is also about power. This ferret dude and his pals can pseudo-intellectualize and play the "socially awkward naiveté" card all they want – cons still tend to be very much a predominately male space, and this is just another way of marking territory. More and more women are attending, spending money at and even helping to organize cons these days; crap like this is an unfortunately predictable response from the old guard.

As for the females who were involved with this stupidity...WHATever. I learned a long time ago that some women will cut their own throats – not to mention those of any other woman in the vicinity! – in order to gain the tiniest scrap of male approval.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

cons still tend to be very much a predominately male space, and this is just another way of marking territory. More and more women are attending, spending money at and even helping to organize cons these days; crap like this is an unfortunately predictable response from the old guard.

That's one aspect I hadn't even *considered*, but it makes a lot of sense. Hm, I kind of wish I could attend one of those cons now. After years of walking around in dodgy streets both in Athens and Bulgaria and run-ins with truly scary people, they'd have their work cut out trying to intimidate me. I bet I could make at least one Geeky boy cry. ;)


As for the females who were involved with this stupidity...WHATever. I learned a long time ago that some women will cut their own throats – not to mention those of any other woman in the vicinity! – in order to gain the tiniest scrap of male approval.

As someone who's recently had some very frustrating online interactions in non-fandom spaces, may I offer you a slice of WordCake, topped with Wordsauce and a side of Wordcream?

It's like those women who *proudly* proclaim they are not like 'those feminists'. The pandering to the patriarchy, it makes the Baby Jesus cry!

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this post (http://giandujakiss.livejournal.com/404780.html) breaks down the whole power-issue excellently, IMO.

[jollityfarm.livejournal.com]

I just had a thought reading that post - when being adorned with these buttons, the women have (in a sense) turned themselves into commodities. Imagine a shelf full of cakes. Women are desserts to be sampled as the clientèle wishes. No wonder The Ferret was so reticent on the subject of men who wish to touch being given badges instead. Most people would rather be the consumer than the cake.

I guess that's what was being said about power and such. I must be tired, but I feel a bit like crying. Best go to bed now.

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

yeah, as she said, they have their breasts validated. He gets his personhood validated.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

There are no words!

[countouttheday.livejournal.com]

I hadn't seen this one either. And, yeah... kind of fucked up.

The thing is, I would totally be the person that in a small (or smallish) group of friends, would be totally comfortable letting other people touched (though I might touch back). I like the idea of removing the OH MY GOD TOUCHING HOW SHOCKING. I do tend to be very open with friends.

BUT. There's a difference between being open (often to the point of inciting shit) among those I choose to let in and being objectified in general. I'm not really a yeller or smacker, though. I more fight back by objectifying and/or grossing out in return (ex: "you're pretty cute. i'm trying to decide what would be hotter: reaming you from behind or watching some other guy do it.")

Some of his later explanation also touched on something else. Apparently it was mostly touching other girls. And I am a girl. Who likes to touch other girls. This came up last night, so it's kind of on my mind, but I am very torn over the girl-on-girl thing. I guess because I am the kind of non-threatening attractive (enough) girl guys like to think about when they think about lesbians and bisexual women. I have a boyfriend but I'm very attracted to girls.

But... the idea of girls who kiss other girls as a way of titillating guys really puts me off. I don't like that I can pass as heterosexual and wuss out of being honest with people if I want (when others have to deal with the shit that comes with being open). I don't quite know where this is going, except some poorly worded statement about wanting openness without objectification.

[jollityfarm.livejournal.com]

It's perfectly reasonable to want to express your sexuality without wanting other people to come and join in. Obviously, some people like to be sideshow attractions, but those people can go and join a sideshow and not try to make the rest of the world into participants in their kink. Of course, I think that sexuality is a private thing, but there are so many things that some people do ("I'd like you to meet my wife") that'd risk drawing attention from the wrong sorts if others did it, and that sucks, and insisting on creating a world where everything is sexual and for complete strangers to pick like fruit is really not going to appeal to everyone. To me, it sounds like perpetually being fourteen and not being able to say certain innocuous words for fear of having to explain that that wasn't what you meant by "come with me".

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

(sorry for the lateness of my reply, but I’ve been having keyboard issues)

I totally wouldn’t mind this in a select group of friends (I’m totally touchy-feely with my friends too), or among a space where individuals willingly entered to engage in that kind of experience. Whatever works among consenting adults is their business, is my motto.

But the way this whole thing was done, plus the recipe for disaster on an EPIC scale of making it into a ‘movement’. Um, NO.

Good point about the ‘female on female touching: potential turn on for male bystanders’ aspect. As someone who’s had random guys assume my friends and I were bi (and obviously up for a threesome) because they’d seen me dancing with them (no, it’s not a show for your benefit, asshat) or hugging, I could easily see how a massive BoobGrope might make some of their heads explode.

This can go wrong in so many ways.

[rosiesparrow.livejournal.com]

Dear me - I think it's a sign of complete burn-out on the part of women if we are allowing ourselves to be 'sampled' like food. Ojectified everyday in person, on the TV, by boyfriends - how the hell is the best way to deal with it? Especially when confronted with a group who thinks it's 'cool' to do. It's really convenient that it's cloaked in quasi-goddess-worship reverence. i wonder how these guys would feel if they had other (big scary) men grabbing their dicks or asses. Would they see it as beautiful worship of the phallus? Think they might be a bit intimmidated, unless that was what floated their boat.
Grr - when can we start the vigilante group?

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Anytime you want to start the group, I'm in. You bring the tasers!

How are things, btw? Free of weirdness, one hopes. I assume you're still in the States-got a landline I could call you at some time?

[liluv.livejournal.com]

How on earth do you find these things?

It´s the creepiest thing when women join Stockholm syndrom of sexism, and of course it sadly delivers every horny geek boy the justification for being a leechy grabber: if the women don´t object, it´s okay. Yeah, well that´s like sayig women can´t be misogynists since they are women or Afro-American people can´t be racist since... blah blah. You get the drift. The actual mean thing about this is, that it easily provides an opportunity to blame sexism towards women on- well, the women. They are the ones who are responsible since they had the opportunity to take action, but they didn´t.

What staggering bullshit this is.