My sekrit wishes as a fic reader, let me show you them!

[ishtar79]

So fandom is great, right? No pairing too cracktastic, no kink too extreme to have at least one community or fic challenge dedicated to it. Mind you, I’m aware that not all fandoms are created equal, and you’re less likely to get flamed for writing non-con bestiality incest chan in the Fandom Of 1000 kinks aka the HP fandom (or start a series of posts both defending and condemning non-con bestiality incest chan, and then there are sockpuppets, and then a bunch of people delete their ljs, and then the whole thing ends up in Metafandom and Fandom Wank…actually, that sounds exactly like the HP fandom!) than if you write said story in say, Veronica Mars.

Generally speaking though, in fanfic, no subject is really taboo, right?

Except for the things that kind of are.


Adultery/Infidelity: This one has become significantly more common after the Crapilogue Of Doom, if for no reason than the purely practical. Yes, Harry might be considerate enough to divorce Ginny before jumping into bed with Draco/Newly Ressurected!Snape/Hermione/Teddy Lupin but sometimes, it just doesn’t work out that way. In just as many fics, Ginny ends up preemptively leaving Harry for a fellow Quiddich Player (and how much do I love a fandom where that’s already a fanon cliché?), or because she realizes how deeply messed up/deeply gay he is. Or she ends up tragically dying, because she’s considerate like that (or more likely, because the author doesn’t want Harry to look bad).

I awful lot of fans seem to have a pronounced Infidelity Squick. And when it’s actually infidelity within the pairing, then well! This becomes the kind of thing that requires actual warnings, like “charater death”, “water sports” and “bottom!Snape”.

I don’t really get it. Infidelity can be the basis of great drama-just ask Tolstoy! It’s got readily built-in angst, tension and complications, and unlike some of the verse-specific angst, it’s something readers can relate to, at least somewhat easier than it is to relate to the angst of being in love with a Werewolf/Slytherin/Death Eater/Reanimated by Magic Corpse.

Is the problem that it’s a theme that hits too close to home? Yes, in real life, infidelity is a Bad Thing. But then, so is murder, rape or teachers having sex with their sixteen-year-old students, and no of course I’m not equating the level of wrongness in any way, just pointing some typical fic plot points that are overall more popular and (mostly) unchallenged than character A stepping out on character B in an A/B fic.

It’s not unique in fanfic. I love the show Dexter and given the lack of interest/discussion of it on my flist, like to read the TWP forums after every episode (not participate myself, since I have many issues with TWP I won’t get into here). For those who don’t know, the main character of the show is a serial killer. One who only goes after bad guys, sure, and one played by the infinitely charismatic and dead sexy Michael C. Hall, but the bottom line? Serial killer.

Last season included a subplot of Dexter having an affair with a sociopathic headcase by the name of Lila, despite being in a long term relationship with Rita. And then the Internets exploded. Suddenly, much of the season arc and non-soap opera plot elements were pushed to the side in favour of a screaming discussion about how Lila is a terrible character and actress (kind of true on the former, YES on the latter), arguments about whether this technically constituted cheating (“We were on a BREAK!”/Ross Gellar> and a whole lot of (overwhelmingly female) fans grumbling about how they could ‘never look at Dexter the same way again’ and the character was ‘ruined’ for them. And I repeat, fans previously adoring and even woobifying a sociopath who routinely chops people into little bits and have impassionate morally relativist arguments justifying his every action, but oh no, he cheats his girlfriend and suddenly they think he’s kind of a bastard? (This? Is precisely why I avoid the TWP forums!) Oh, fandom, what sweet crack you’re smoking!

Abortion: This is by no means limited to fic: abortion is the pink elephant in the room of popular media, an option that is not only not taken, but seldom even considered. Hell, it might as well not exist.

I realise that it’s a divisive topic (well, in some cultures. I’m happy to say that despite the many ways Greek society is socially backwards, reproductive rights are largely a non-issue. Abortion is legal and acceptable, and that’s all there is to it). Not everyone in fandom is pro-choice, but if you go by the way unwanted pregnancies are handled in fic alone, you’d think nobody is.

Here’s the thing: it doesn’t really matter how you (the writer, the reader, the random troll who stops by to flame) would handle an unwanted pregnancy, only how the character would. If you’re writing BSG where canon states that abortions are illegal and one of the show’s themes in the survival of the human race then yes, the character would probably have the baby. (Or they might go for a highly dangerous illegal abortion to get rid of their potentially homicidal half-Cylon spawn, and presto! Instant drama!). If you’re writing about school age Hermione getting pregnant, especially as a result of rape? Then she would probably abort. Or she could conceivably not, but as I reader I require a hell of of a lot of explaining for that option. Saying ‘Hermione believed in the sanctity of life’ is imposing your own cultural bias on a middle-class, progressive, academically-focused British girl, and it makes me cringe and grit my teeth more than other examples of lazy writing/OOCness.

Look, it’s not as if it’s a plot I encounter particularly often. I make a conscious effect to avoid baby!fic and I mostly read slash, but when I do occasionally stumble upon it, mostly in Snape/Hermione fic, I’m deeply disturbed by the writer posting apologetic author’s notes about even mentioning the “A” word or even worse, anti-choice being kind of the default fic setting. Since I’m assuming not every single writer's personal politics are anti-abortion, then a big chunk self-censor. TV shows/films self-censor to avoid loss of adverts/viewers. Fic writers self-censor…why exactly? Losing readers? You do anyway by your choice of paring/rating/inclusion of the words ‘frock coat’/because X BNF that Y reader hates in your flist. Flames? The very act of posting a fanfic in the HP verse online makes flames a real possibility. I’m not saying every writer should engage in an awareness-raising campaign, all I’m saying is that if you’re prepared to stand by your choice to write Underage/Crossgen/Rickman!Snape, be prepared to stand by your choice to write…well, choice.

Comments

[kryptyd.livejournal.com]

Interesting comments on abortion. It's strange alright that the fandom "default setting" seems to be anti, but that's probably due to American teenagers being so prevalent on the internet. No offence intended to Americans of course! But that's no real reason for self-censorship though as you said.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Definitely no reason for self-censorship. The Internet (the whole world!) is full of people ready to be 'offended' and 'outraged' over the most trivial of things. To cater to all of them, nobody should say or do anything.

[elanor-x.livejournal.com]

The whole culture smokes the same "sweet crack". Just think which programs many (conservative & not only) parents would let their children watch & which they wouldn't. Movies, in which people are cut to pieces, are generally acceptable, but sex is The Taboo. Movie rating system follows suit too.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

The double standard which exists in onscreen depictions of sex and violence has always fascinated me. I actually did my dissertation on the 1939 MPPA Code, which had a lot to say about 'morally questionable content' and very little on violent one. Even with the contemporary ratings system, I see a lot of PG-13 films with violence and gore that makes me cringe, but the slightest hint of a boobie, and it shoots straight to R.

And it's always about 'protecting the children'. The effect films and shows can have on a child (if any) is by no means something studies universally agree on, but I know I personally have been traumatized a lot more as kid by scary scenes on TV than I have by seeing people getting it on. Not that either has turned me into a violent or sex-addicted person, but I'd be a lot more comfortable letting my little cousins watch a movie with a sex scene than I would one with a beheading.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I know for me, I only have an infidelity squick for the characters for whom it just doesn't work in my head. I have an extremely hard time seeing, say, Sam Winchester cheating on anyone, and it makes it hard for me to read fic where he's committing adultery. Although not half as badly as I'd react if it happened in canon, and yet for some reason I'm sometimes not sure if he wouldn't be more likely to cheat on a woman he's in a relationship with than Dean ever would.

As for Dexter, I seriously don't understand what crack a fan of the show would have to be smoking to be up in arms about him cheating on Rita, at least that one time. (Now that he cheated on her with Lila, that much made me say, "Oh, Dexter. *headsmack*") Putting aside that he is a serial killer, the man is so uncomfortable and awkward in a personal relationship that even at season's end I don't think he really understands that he does actually love Rita. He'll admit to loving Cody and Astor, but his grasp on romantic relationships is a bit shaky. I can buy him cheating on her and go along with it for the simple fact that he just doesn't get it.

The thing is, when it comes to people in real life, it lowers my expectations and opinions of people a LOT if they're cheated on a loved one. If you can't keep loyal to a significant other or spouse, my ability to trust you also comes into question. And it's one thing when it's a fictional character who'd I expect it from -- I have a hard time believing Sawyer from Lost could stay loyal to anyone -- but it's an entirely different and uncomfortable scenario seeing it come from someone for whom it's entirely out of character. And yeah, people whom you'd never expect it from cheat, but it's kind of hard to write a character doing that when doing it makes you hate them for it. (Which feels weird to say because I've written Sam Winchester going dark and killing everybody, but that's potentially in character. And interesting. And hot.)

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

I can understand characterisation-based objections to a character cheating. I can't know for sure whether Sam or Dean would be more likely to cheat in a relationship, but it's a safe bet that if they did cheat, it would be for entirely different reasons.

(Now that he cheated on her with Lila, that much made me say, "Oh, Dexter. *headsmack*")

Hee. I can relate.

And Dexter definitely doesn't *get* the complexities of relationships. I actually agree with the theory that in his mind, it wasn't cheating, because that fight with Rita made him go 'Well. That's over, then.' He wouldn't knowingly make the decision to cheat, not because he's morally opposed to it, but because he's very careful about avoiding messy human emotions/complications.

have a hard time believing Sawyer from Lost could stay loyal to anyone -- but it's an entirely different and uncomfortable scenario seeing it come from someone for whom it's entirely out of character.

And yet, I'm certain there are a lot of schmoopy Sawyer/Kate fics out there where he's 100% and wouldn't dream of cheating. Fans can have a selective understanding of characterisation.

And yeah, people whom you'd never expect it from cheat, but it's kind of hard to write a character doing that when doing it makes you hate them for it. (Which feels weird to say because I've written Sam Winchester going dark and killing everybody, but that's potentially in character. And interesting. And hot.)

Agreed both on the fact that people whom you wouldn't expect it from do cheat and that it's hard to write (well, I imagine. Read, too!) a character in a way that makes him unlikeable to you. But then, people enjoy characters doing Not Nice At All stuff all the time, not to mention like fundamentally unlikeable characters, so I still wonder why it's infidelity in particular getting singled out on a fandom-wide level.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

so I still wonder why it's infidelity in particular getting singled out on a fandom-wide level.

I think it goes back to what you just said about Sawyer/Kate fics. Yeah, from the outside point of view of somebody who knows the fandom but doesn't watch anymore, I think Sawyer is not trustworthy in a relationship and Kate would be dumb to think otherwise. But if you really like a character, you're not going to want to see that. And depending on how good the writer is, they might even be able to get me to buy it.

For me personally, there's way too much guilt and anguish in stories of infidelity for me to want to read them, not to mention that it's far too realistic a concept in that regard. There are a handful of stories that I loved but would never read again in a million years, and the one common thread they share is that they're all painfully bleak. The story may be fabulously written but if I come out of the story feeling awful I'm not going to want to go near it again. (See: Atonement. Lovely movie. I *really* don't want to watch it again.)

There's nothing enjoyable for me in a story about characters I like cheating on their significant others. It makes them people that I'm not sure I'd want to associate with in real life at the same time that it's not an interesting situation for me as a reader.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

There are a handful of stories that I loved but would never read again in a million years, and the one common thread they share is that they're all painfully bleak. The story may be fabulously written but if I come out of the story feeling awful I'm not going to want to go near it again.

I can understand the sentiment. It's why I (usually) don't read anything involving non-con, character death or mega-angst of any variety. I come to fandom to unwind, and while I appreciate some bleak fics in terms of writing, it's not what I prefer to read.

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

Heh, yup, that's fandom in a nut-shell. Bring on the rape and incest but heaven forbid anyone would abort any possible outcome! (Speaking of which, I fear to ask if it's common with incest fic dealing with pregnancies? I have read just the fic you're describing with Hermione, only it was Lucius who was the rapist. She was really OOC the entire fic.) And the OTP can certainly begin as non-con, but NO CHEATING! The only way cheating seems to be used is to villify a character, either the cheater, who stands between the twu wub of the shipped characters and proves unworthy by cheating, or the cheatee, who was such a bitch (because it always seems to be a female character in this case) that she drove her man to it.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Speaking of which, I fear to ask if it's common with incest fic dealing with pregnancies?

Yikes! I have no idea (I've never personally seen it), but probably not. I suspect the dilemma of having to chose between the potential genetic problems and social stigma attached to a child of incest and the big old scary A word might make some writers' heads explode. And in terms of flames, it's kind of a lose-lose situation.

I have read just the fic you're describing with Hermione, only it was Lucius who was the rapist. She was really OOC the entire fic.

I would say "OMG! I read that exact fic!" except that I'm sure that there's more than one.

And the OTP can certainly begin as non-con, but NO CHEATING!

Well duh, because cheating brings up all sorts of trust issues! And as fandom has taught us, is that you should always trust your rapist.

The only way cheating seems to be used is to villify a character, either the cheater, who stands between the twu wub of the shipped characters and proves unworthy by cheating, or the cheatee, who was such a bitch (because it always seems to be a female character in this case) that she drove her man to it.

How I wish every word of that phrase didn't bring specific fics to mind. Oh, fandom!

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

I would say "OMG! I read that exact fic!" except that I'm sure that there's more than one.

Haha! Was yours a R/Hr one, where Draco would act like a Iago, convincing Ron Hermione was acting weird because she was really sleeping with Harry?

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

LMAO, yes on the R/Hr, though it's been a while since I read it, and don't remember if there was Iago!Draco.

Ah, trainwreck!fics, one of my guilty pleasures. I'll click 'back' on most badfics, but there is the kind of BAD on an epic scale that I can never put down.

[artystone.livejournal.com]

So you haven't looked at wizard_trauma lately?

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

This? Is excellent! And yay, HP fandom, there really IS a community for everything.

Ok, but I stand what I say in terms of a general trend. I mean, there *might* be a community dedicated to Umbridge smut out there, but overall, Umbridge smut is not something you see every day.

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

I'm radically pro-choice in real life, but I'd have a character be anti-choice if it means having them keep their ass baby. ASS BABIES RULE!

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Heh, I was actually aware of my het-centrism when I was writing the second point, but given that I don't read MPreg, I wasn't sure how to comment on the issue there. I don't even know if it comes up! I mean, are ass babies usually planned? If not, um, how? Do I even want to know?

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

No, they are pretty much almost never planned. Ass Babies Just Happen. ABJH.

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure there are doctors who know how to abort an ass-baby, even in fanficland. :(

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Maybe you go to a person who does colostomies?

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

Oh, but there's a reasonable amount of ass baby abortions in SGA.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

...because men are SO MUCH BETTER at the Big Scary Decisions that the emotionnal wymmenz?

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

No, because the authors are playing with the cliches and trying new things. Someone says 'You know, no one ever has an abortion!' and then the authors rush to write 'Well, Rodney's getting one right now! That'll learn ya.'

I don't know how the women get treated in fic pregnancies because I avoid het stuff ;D

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Someone says 'You know, no one ever has an abortion!' and then the authors rush to write 'Well, Rodney's getting one right now! That'll learn ya.'

That's kind of cool. I wish a similar trend would start in the HP fandom.

[lilith-morgana.livejournal.com]

I HATE the "oh, I had a child because... well, well... because I was pregnant and it was NO OTHER OPTION" thing too. They can take a simple potion, I'm sure of it. Now I wish I had written more about UNBORN BABIES. The only time I've had a character consider this choice was when I wrote "one for sorrow" and Eileen kinda had to give birth to Snape. :)

Now I want to write a fic where Saint Lily serially aborts babies until she's too late that one time and has to have Harry. *prepares to be killed by fandom*

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

The only time I've had a character consider this choice was when I wrote "one for sorrow" and Eileen kinda had to give birth to Snape. :)


LOL, imagine the flames if she did. XD

Now I want to write a fic where Saint Lily serially aborts babies until she's too late that one time and has to have Harry. *prepares to be killed by fandom*

DO IT. I'll protect you from The Wrath of Fandom. And probably get trampled in two seconds, but come on, it'll be fun!

[mondegreen.livejournal.com]

I once read a H/D mpreg fic (DON'T JUDGE ME) where Draco tried to abort using a potion but, despite excruciating pain, the potion didn't work. Although Draco had been, to his surprise, relieved the potion didn't work, it turned out that the process of birthing the baby was even more painful. And then the fic went on to be even more bleak as Harry and Draco made a family (unexpected birth after unexpected birth) and both their relationship and Draco's health slowly deteriorated. The entire fic was bittersweet, but very heavy on the bitter. The painful, painful bitter. After I was done reading, I thought, "Wow, life kind of sucks." But, even though I sort of regretted reading it, I admired how a seemingly cracktastic fic could engage in such ambiguous politics: would have Draco and Harry's lives been better if the potion had worked? Was all the physical and emotional pain worth it? Sadly, though, Draco never seemed to have any choice in what happened to his body throughout the fic, and that was deeply devastating and disturbing.

I love infidelity fic! Especially if it occurs within the main pairing itself. I demand all of every fandom reads this post so more infidelity fic will be written

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

That fic sounds disturbing as hell! Forced!pregnancy is one of my biggest phobias. I read a fic recently where a male character sabotaged a female character's contraception (not naming names, in case it's better known than I assumed) and then makes it so that she doesn't have access to contraception. There was an intricate plot reason for all of that, of course, but it put me off like you wouldn't believe. Almost equally disturbing were the reviews cheerfully ignoring the gross violation and just gushing about the sex scenes and 'romance'.

Yay for infidelity fic!

[mondegreen.livejournal.com]

Forced!pregnancy is one of my biggest phobias.

Ditto. That fic I wrote about really disturbed me -- so much so that it stuck with me until now. Haha. That fic you gave an example of could be a good example of pro-choice through the negative. But that pro-choice position could easily be neutralized if the couple had lived "happily ever after." And if fic readers just don't get it (which happens more than I'd like to think).

I don't know if you watch Weeds? But, despite it being a good show, I watched one episode ever. It happened to be one where the main character's oldest son stuck a hole in a condom with a needle so he could impregnate his deaf girlfriend so she wouldn't leave for university. I found it so repulsive that I couldn't watch anymore. LOL.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Yes, I remember that Weeds episode! The girl definitely didn't get pregnant. I don't remember if Nancy ever found out, but if she did, I hope there was a serious ass whopping.

[mondegreen.livejournal.com]

The girl definitely didn't get pregnant.

Oh, okay, good. That makes it somewhat less repulsive. One drop less of repulsive in a sea of repulsiveness. LOL. Maybe I should watch the other episodes of Weeds now.

Go Nancy!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

No, no, she absolutely did get pregnant! But she never found out he did it on purpose and neither did anyone else. He tried to pressure her into having the baby but she had an abortion (thank goodness). And they broke up.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Ok, clearly I need to rewatch Weeds S1. I don't remember any of this!

[ioanna.livejournal.com]

I've hated Silas forever for that shit he pulled. That and others, I want that little shit dead. And I can't believe you forgot that abortion. I was cheering that abortion like you wouldn't believe!

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Yay for TV abortion depictions, *especially* regarding teen pregnancy!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, I just wrote my whole post on this and totally missed you were already talking about this episode.

I don't think Nancy ever found out about the sabotage. She would have killed him.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh god, I remember when a character actually did that on Weeds. The girl never actually found out but wow, that relationship was over as far as I was concerned. And luckily it did end on the show too, because the girl had no intention of having this baby and the boy was all, "Yay, now you can stay with me forever and I've got a million names for the kid!" It was really frightening watching this idiot teenaged boy try to hold on to his girlfriend like a little kid with his mommy by IMPREGNATING HER WITHOUT HER CONSENT!

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Hee, I'm amused that both of your minds went to that plotline.

Mine probably would have too, if not for my worrying memory loss!

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

well I only just started watching Dexter (but you can see I already have icons! LOL), and I haven't gotten to the 'cheating' yet.... But it seems to me that they've bent over backwards to show that Dex just really doesn't have much of a sex drive (his urges are all directed elsewhere) so I have trouble guessing how this will play out. I'll look forward to it!

IMO fans mostly just freak out about anything that doesn't fit in with their own fantasies. If the writers dare to write anything that doesn't agree w/their fan fiction then the fans will always vehemently object, saying the writers are stupid, don't understand the characters (not like THEY do!), and should all be fired...or die.
*eyeroll*

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry I spoiled you for Dexter! Glad you're getting into it though, it's great.

If the writers dare to write anything that doesn't agree w/their fan fiction then the fans will always vehemently object, saying the writers are stupid, don't understand the characters (not like THEY do!), and should all be fired...or die.
*eyeroll*

Ah, the fond memories of the Buffy fandom....

To be fair, sometimes writers do drop the ball on a major scale, especially on serialized television, when a new writer may be brought in who's only seen a few episodes.

But hyperbole and death threats are ridiculous. As is sending people burnt out posters of B/A... :P

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

oh don't worry about spoilers... just don't tell me who the 'ice box killer' is, because I'm totally into that love affair er... crime drama (LOL).

Well, I gotta go watch last night's Torchwood!

OMG! I have to make an 'I love Dexter' T-shirt!

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

OMG I am never going to be able to thank you enough... I just finished watching the s2 of Dexter and I am blown away! I REALLY could not guess what was going to happen... and now I need to rewatch both seasons again...and again...and again! LOL

The question of 'cheating' on Rita is so dumb: poor Dexter doesn't have our human emotions, he wasn't in love w/Rita when he chose her as his beard... He doesn't love her now. But she is his ideal of the woman who wants a simple ordinary 'normal' life, she represents everything he wants for his future. And he never loved Lilah, she was just the dark strange reflection of his own sociopathic tendencies... giving in to her was just a way of accepting his own monster (but obviously he was never going to want to live there, her insisting that she was his 'soul mate' was just pitiful). I'm so glad he went to Paris to 'get closure' with Lilah! LOL

Oh man, this series is incredible... I may have to find out when Showtime is going to restart, and maybe I'll sign up (it would cost extra, but this show is incredible!).

thank you again!

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

I actually hate the whole, "it's cheating even if we were on a break" crap and would dump somebody again if they pulled that shit on me, but I was raised in a family where nobody ever breaks up unless they have their next partner already lined up so I kind of think cheating is normal when things are bad. Don't hate me!

I have written about abortion several times (it comes up from time to time in Lightning War too) but I am tired of people thinking that whatever my characters did/said/believed is what I believe. My Snape in House of Ill Faith was quite anti-abortion and I was tired of comments from people who assumed I was anti-choice because my character was and even worse the praise from anti-choicers. (He was anti-abortion in part because his wife had almost died from a botched one when he was a teenager and in part because he was Catholic. I on the other hand am pro-choice and really anti-teen motherhood and have had an abortion.)

OTOH I think that since Dexter kills people who deserve to die (I know you're totally against the death penalty, but see, I'm not) a lot of people are more okay with that than they are with him cheating on Rita, who does not, after all, deserve to be cheated on.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

I think the 'on a break' stuff is crap too, I just think Dexter genuinely believed they were broken up. And I definitely don't condemn cheating under all circumstances, because human relation are a little more complicated than that.

Wow, getting praise from anti-choice people. *shudder* I don't the idea of anti-choice characters, especially when their motivation is explained in a convincing way. It's when their stance comes directly from the author's beliefs that I reach for the 'back' button.

I AM actually rooting for Dexter on the show. I guess I apply different standards to fiction and his system actually seems less likely to condemn someone innocent to death. But beyond even that, there's the disconnect from human emotions, overall fascination with all things and his constant lying, including to Rita. The way people were flipping out you'd think he was an absolute angel before which again, the lying alone.

[ackonrad.livejournal.com]

Yes, in real life, infidelity is a Bad Thing. But then, so is murder, rape or teachers having sex with their sixteen-year-old students

Maybe people try to follow, in their messed-up own way, Rowling's rules in her Universe? Murder is present throughout the whole HP series, while adultery isn't. IMO, Rowling herself would consider adultery Something Which Name Shouldn't Be Mentioned At All, cause it's that bad. Just like sex. Adultery has a lot to do with sex.

Of course, this argument doesn't work when we come to the teacher/student sex (I don't want to say rape, because there have been indications for rape in canon, although it's never said in clear text), but I guess that in such cases people try for something forbidden and sexy and not that common, as well as pretty impossible in the HP Universe. Adultery is way more common in real life than student/teacher sex, and as many married couples practice it, it's not tantalizing enough to write about, at least for writers who want to push the sexual buttons of themselves and their readers. After all, a somehow resurrected Snape having hot sex with Scorpius is way more forbidden and dark and exciting for the lovers of kinky sex than Harry cheating on his wife with a balding Draco in his home while Ginny's visiting her mum.

Also, Harry as the devoted husband of Ginny and father of three kids with crappy names isn't as exciting and sexy as he was when he was still ogling Tom Riddle. Just sayin'. He's boring and normal now. Just like Draco hasn't got hair. Sadly, characters that have sex have to be good-looking. Or have something to compensate that, like sex-appeal. Snape obviously has it, dead or alive, even though I'll never understand why.

BTW, I'm not a real supporter of any of the ideas I described - I'm just looking for possible explanations for the phenomenon you described. BTW, what about Sirius/Remus? Wasn't it going strong in fic even after Lupin married Tonks? Did they treat Tonks the same way? Because I always thought most people wrote it as adultery. Maybe I'm wrong.

Didn't you know that murder is okay to talk about, but abortion is not, because OMG we have to think about the fetuses, cause they are more important than the real people! *rolls eyes*

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

Maybe people try to follow, in their messed-up own way, Rowling's rules in her Universe?

Hm, interesting theory, but I sort of doubt it. For one thing, the phenomenon isn't confined to the HP fandom, and for another, I think a large part of fandom is not particularly concerned about the Potterverse's 'moral' rules.

Adultery is way more common in real life than student/teacher sex, and as many married couples practice it, it's not tantalizing enough to write about, at least for writers who want to push the sexual buttons of themselves and their readers.

You might be on to something here. Adultery is certainly more common, and like I said in my post, it might be a bit *too* realistic for a lot of people.

After all, a somehow resurrected Snape having hot sex with Scorpius is way more forbidden and dark and exciting for the lovers of kinky sex than Harry cheating on his wife with a balding Draco in his home while Ginny's visiting her mum.


LMAO @ the imagery. Aw, poor balding!Draco.


Also, Harry as the devoted husband of Ginny and father of three kids with crappy names isn't as exciting and sexy as he was when he was still ogling Tom Riddle. Just sayin'. He's boring and normal now. Just like Draco hasn't got hair. Sadly, characters that have sex have to be good-looking. Or have something to compensate that, like sex-appeal. Snape obviously has it, dead or alive, even though I'll never understand why.


Hee! If fandom has taught us one thing, it's that only sexy or dangerous people have sex, and that's a FACT!

BTW, I'm not a real supporter of any of the ideas I described - I'm just looking for possible explanations for the phenomenon you described. BTW, what about Sirius/Remus? Wasn't it going strong in fic even after Lupin married Tonks? Did they treat Tonks the same way? Because I always thought most people wrote it as adultery. Maybe I'm wrong.

It's been AGES since I read a Sirius/Remus fic, so I have no idea how they're written. From what I understand, a lot of people see Tonks as a beard/mistake/evil monster who practically *forced* poor defenseless Lupin to marry her.


Didn't you know that murder is okay to talk about, but abortion is not, because OMG we have to think about the fetuses, cause they are more important than the real people! *rolls eyes*

Life starts at conception and ends at birth!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I can't believe I forgot to talk about Dexter! The Rita thing really is funny because like you said, it's not like he was really faithful to her before in many ways. It's not even the cheating, but the fact that the woman totally doesn't know who she's dating. It's like they assume she'd be okay with not knowing about the murder, but she should not be lied to about sex with another woman!!!

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

LOL, exactly! I knew you'd get it, since you've had the pleasure of viewing those TWP threads. The common opinion of the pre-Lila Dexter/Rita relationship just seems to *redefine* whitewashing.

Personally, I'd be a lot more disturbed/betrayed if I found out the man I was seeing and letting around my kids was a SERIAL KILLER than if he'd cheated. But then I'm odd that way. :P