Greek riots: the extended disco version
Dec. 21st, 2008 02:58 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ishtar79The protests about the murder of a 15-year-old by police are still continuing here, if on a slightly smaller scale than the first day. I realize at this point there’s probably zero interest in this outside of Greece, but I’m posting this for my own reference if nothing else.
Yeah, so I wish I had some articles that didn’t make me want to bang my head against the wall (or, more appealingly, bang the head of the journalist who wrote it). I’m not talking just coverage outside of Greece-our own media haven’t exactly covered themselves with glory-but then overreacting and spreading panic *is* what they do best.
As for the boy’s murder itself, this blog post has the best summary I’ve found in English:
That’s the shooting itself. The rest of the post is worth checking out too, as it gives some idea of why this lead to the shit hitting the fan in such a spectacular manner.
In case anybody does read this and has any questions, I’d be happy to answer them. But right now I’m too drained to even attempt an in-depth analysis, so instead I’ll post some of the best pictures of the events I’ve found online over the last two weeks:
Alex Grigoropoulos, the kid whose murder started it all.
Student protesters.
School kids protesting. School children are at the very epicenter of these protests, occupying schools, taking it to the streets, and having the shit kicked out of them by the police while their middle-aged parents mostly watch it on the news and comment on ‘these young punks’. A Greek comedian insightfully compared the situation to ‘watching a Reality TV show of our own kids’.
It should be noted that our glorious state thugs/police, who did very little in the face of the more violent protests/looting of the first day, saw fit to break out the tear gas and sticks during the peaceful demonstration consisting of school kids and their teachers.
According to numerous statements from kids on the news, they take special pleasure in shouting out classy things like “Come and get it, you little fa****s” and “where’s your Alex now?”, in order to provoke some of the more hot-headed teens and have an excuse to get violent.
I totally believe it, too. The other day, while walking around town, I passed a small demonstration consisting of about 20 University students, doing nothing more innocuous than blocking traffic and holding up some signs. Just as I was heading away, I saw a squad of riot police in full gear heading in their direction, with the air of the Romans about to invade Gaul. Intimidation > constitutional right of protest
Well, fuck you too.
Rioters have taken to using laser pointers to blind the cops during skirmishes. Between this, and blogs, youtube, and videos and police violence getting posted on the hour, I bet they’re really cursing those fucking kids and their damned technology.
Meanwhile, Greek police uses tear gas with an expiration date of 1978 (!). I don’t want to know what the effect would be from breathing an already harmful chemical that is older than me.
I’m just saying, it can’t be healthy.
One of the themes of protest is a demand of disarmnent of the Greek police. I fully support it, but am not exactly holding my breath.
My very own hometown of Thessaloniki.
Now, I’m not personally one to protest violently, but I if I still lived there, I might have been tempted to firebomb a certain TV station (this joke will only make sense to small portion of my friendslist who’s been here for years).
Those are not images commonly shown in the media. Doesn’t sell as much as clashes, fires and Molotov cocktails.
As an aside, among all my frustration at my government, the fucking cops and really, the world, I’m filled with a sense of hope because of those kids. Those kids, that I believed to be apathetic and too into their I-Pods and consumer goods, and Netspeak, those kids have made me so fucking PROUD these days, with their refusal to be bow their heads down, their political activism and surprising eloquence. I didn’t think this generation had it in them.
Of course, when I told![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ariadneelda as much, she pointed out to me that with every youth revolt in history, the previous generation is all shocked and surprised because the kids weren’t stuck in their own little world. Shit, does that mean I’m officially OLD?
Tear gas: the gift that keeps on giving.
The birthplace of democracy-sometimes the irony can become almost tangible.
I have nothing to say to these, not without exhausting every expletive I know.
A candlelit vigil.
High school students, taking their clothes off and playing symbolically dead in front of the central police station.
(They’re underage, but really, LJ, I’m sure if the news outlets show this, it’s not a ban-worthy picture…right?)
I love this one. So powerful.
This isn’t over.
Yeah, so I wish I had some articles that didn’t make me want to bang my head against the wall (or, more appealingly, bang the head of the journalist who wrote it). I’m not talking just coverage outside of Greece-our own media haven’t exactly covered themselves with glory-but then overreacting and spreading panic *is* what they do best.
As for the boy’s murder itself, this blog post has the best summary I’ve found in English:
Whatever really did happen on Saturday night, one thing is clear from the eye witness accounts (unfortunateley for the police, there are several and they all concur). Alexandros and his friends got into an argument with two police officers in the bohemian district of Exarcheio. There was no baying mob as the police claimed. Shots were fired, supposedly in the air, and an unarmed teenager lay dying on the road as the two officers calmly walked away.
That’s the shooting itself. The rest of the post is worth checking out too, as it gives some idea of why this lead to the shit hitting the fan in such a spectacular manner.
In case anybody does read this and has any questions, I’d be happy to answer them. But right now I’m too drained to even attempt an in-depth analysis, so instead I’ll post some of the best pictures of the events I’ve found online over the last two weeks:
Alex Grigoropoulos, the kid whose murder started it all.
Student protesters.
School kids protesting. School children are at the very epicenter of these protests, occupying schools, taking it to the streets, and having the shit kicked out of them by the police while their middle-aged parents mostly watch it on the news and comment on ‘these young punks’. A Greek comedian insightfully compared the situation to ‘watching a Reality TV show of our own kids’.
It should be noted that our glorious state thugs/police, who did very little in the face of the more violent protests/looting of the first day, saw fit to break out the tear gas and sticks during the peaceful demonstration consisting of school kids and their teachers.
According to numerous statements from kids on the news, they take special pleasure in shouting out classy things like “Come and get it, you little fa****s” and “where’s your Alex now?”, in order to provoke some of the more hot-headed teens and have an excuse to get violent.
I totally believe it, too. The other day, while walking around town, I passed a small demonstration consisting of about 20 University students, doing nothing more innocuous than blocking traffic and holding up some signs. Just as I was heading away, I saw a squad of riot police in full gear heading in their direction, with the air of the Romans about to invade Gaul. Intimidation > constitutional right of protest
Well, fuck you too.
Rioters have taken to using laser pointers to blind the cops during skirmishes. Between this, and blogs, youtube, and videos and police violence getting posted on the hour, I bet they’re really cursing those fucking kids and their damned technology.
Meanwhile, Greek police uses tear gas with an expiration date of 1978 (!). I don’t want to know what the effect would be from breathing an already harmful chemical that is older than me.
I’m just saying, it can’t be healthy.
One of the themes of protest is a demand of disarmnent of the Greek police. I fully support it, but am not exactly holding my breath.
My very own hometown of Thessaloniki.
Now, I’m not personally one to protest violently, but I if I still lived there, I might have been tempted to firebomb a certain TV station (this joke will only make sense to small portion of my friendslist who’s been here for years).
Those are not images commonly shown in the media. Doesn’t sell as much as clashes, fires and Molotov cocktails.
As an aside, among all my frustration at my government, the fucking cops and really, the world, I’m filled with a sense of hope because of those kids. Those kids, that I believed to be apathetic and too into their I-Pods and consumer goods, and Netspeak, those kids have made me so fucking PROUD these days, with their refusal to be bow their heads down, their political activism and surprising eloquence. I didn’t think this generation had it in them.
Of course, when I told
ariadneelda as much, she pointed out to me that with every youth revolt in history, the previous generation is all shocked and surprised because the kids weren’t stuck in their own little world. Shit, does that mean I’m officially OLD?Tear gas: the gift that keeps on giving.
The birthplace of democracy-sometimes the irony can become almost tangible.
I have nothing to say to these, not without exhausting every expletive I know.
A candlelit vigil.
High school students, taking their clothes off and playing symbolically dead in front of the central police station.
(They’re underage, but really, LJ, I’m sure if the news outlets show this, it’s not a ban-worthy picture…right?)
I love this one. So powerful.
This isn’t over.
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no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 01:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 01:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:05 am (UTC)This explains why the rioting is happening and what is really happening in Greece. The information that I've gotten states the kids set Athens on fire. There's even a photo in Time of the kids setting the Christmas tree on fire. Your post sheds a different and much clearer light on what is happening and why, demonstrating how easy it is for the media to manipulate the facts and that there is always more to the story.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:16 am (UTC)Another thing to remember: the protest is no one group/ideology/tactics. Much of the violence has been from small groups that seek any occasion to smash and burn (including football games) and are not necessarily affiliated with any political ideology. And yes, there are anarchists that throw molotov bombs, but to reduce the whole unrest to that subgroup is ridiculous. More disturbingly, a tape (that some bystander took) shows groups of mask-wearing, bat-weilding 'anarchists' chatting with police and parting ways amicably, so at least some of it comes from agents provocateurs which, I'm sad to say, is neither surprising nor unusual here. It goes back to the complicated history between anti-authority groups and the police dating back to the military junta a few decades ago. Suffice to say, cops have a vested interest in discrediting any protesters in the public eye.
Anyway, glad you found this useful. I've been frustrated with the news coverage abroad and most of the comments people make online, but I keep reminding myself it's not my job to personally set the facts straight with everybody on the Internet. But I had to at least give my perspective in my own journal.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:20 am (UTC)stay safe.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:30 am (UTC)I don't really have anybody to go to the protests with (going by myself: deeply unwise), so much of my frustration is directed at myself, for not being able to do anything more productive than curse at uploaded youtube videos of police violence (these are not even the worse images I've seen these days-I saw footage of five cops 'subduing' a student by beating on him while he was down, stepping on his neck).
And don't worry, I am safe. I was out in the most popular shopping street the other day-it was surreal. A couple of hundred meters from where the worst clashes occurred, and all the shops where opened, people were shopping, carols were fucking playing. Consumerism prevails always, it seems.
I do want to go to the site where the boy was shot and light a candle. I wanted to the other day, but I realised I didn't have my ID on me, and didn't want to get stopped by the cops for a check without documents (the fact I look younger than my age? Works AGAINST me right now). And how ridiculous is this, to worry about going in a place near where I normally go out every Saturday without my papers, like I live in a totalitarian state or something.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 04:41 pm (UTC)You are lighting a candle online!
Seriously, this is how totalitarian states are created, because they tell lies and people accept them... so suppressing the people and telling lies becomes the normal behavior/government policy. Posting these pictures and telling the truth is really important.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 08:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 12:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 01:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 01:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 01:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 09:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 12:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 12:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 09:36 am (UTC)And I thought the tear gas this time was extremely harmful because it was modern tear gas! Also, I'm pretty sure I heard the same thing about expired tear gas maybe, ummmm, 15 years ago? WTF, they've been using the same stuff for how many decades?! Or are they buying the expired gas from other countries because it's cheaper or something? (I'm more inclined to believe that.) Gah!
I might have been tempted to firebomb a certain TV station
Ha! Like I was so not sorry when I heard a certain computer chain store was burned in Exarcheia. *has issues with them and their shitty customer service*
Awesome post.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 12:46 pm (UTC)HA, are we talking about the computer chain with the horribly overpriced mice-pen thingies?
Thanks! :)
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 02:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 06:18 pm (UTC)I just scanned through German online magazines (both traditionally liberal or left) and it was interesting to see how different their description of what happened is from yours. Esspecially "Der Spiegel" wrote more along the lines of: the absurdity of what happened blah blah throwing garbage on the Christmas tree... burning it down...ah yes, well and a kid died... blah blitty blah..." Disgusting.
Die ZEIT however did better. I don´t know how well your German still is, but you can look for it here: http://www.zeit.de/2008/52/Griechenland
At least they acknowledge where the blame lies.
Thanks for the pictures and the different perspective.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-21 09:52 pm (UTC)Glad you liked the post!
no subject
Date: 2008-12-22 02:01 am (UTC)Hi. I'm a college kid in a midwestern city in the United States, and I can't stop reading about this. I have Google Reader giving me about fifty articles per day. I don't have time to read every single one, but I read everything that seems to have something new to say. The events have struck me harder than I would have expected. I don't know anyone in Greece. I hardly knew anything about Greek culture and history before this all started--like, the military junta? I had no idea it had ever existed.
Honestly, I've taken in so many varied accounts of what's happening that I'm having a problem figuring out which things I can believe. Given that I don't live there, I don't have the option to see for myself. I can only go by what other people see. But I'm going to keep reading, because...I just can't stop. I don't know why. I've never before gotten so invested in an event so far away from where I live that has had zero direct impact on my life. I've never before grieved so hard for someone I probably never would have met. I just have this sense that it's really important and I need to pay attention. I have to keep reading.
Thank you for your perspective on this. Except for that first picture (jesus christ, I want to cry every time I look at his face), I hadn't seen any of those photos. I've been quite annoyed at the number of journalists who seem to believe that teenagers just love chaos, and that's why they're doing this. Not only does that assume that every single rioter/protester is doing it for the same reasons, but it assumes young people can be safely ignored because we crazy kids all love burning things, everyone knows that! Yeah, no. There has to be more to it than that. Thousands of students don't all get pissed off at once for absolutely no reason.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-22 05:09 am (UTC)We never know what events might strike a chord with us; after all, we live in the age of globalization and information hitting the Internet sometimes within minutes. It’s why I can, for instance, watch the Daily Show online and actually *get* most of the references. I sympathize with your confusion regarding conflicting information from news sources-I’ve been on something of a quest for a news article I can just link to my non-Greek friends when they ask me “say, why has your country exploded?”. Half the time I’m not even sure our own journalists, who supposedly should know better, have a complete understanding of what’s going on (and when I say ‘journalists’, I do mean a more sober portion of print journalists. It goes without saying that TV news are a circus).
The military junta (1967-1974) is relevant to current events insofar as ‘protest culture’ in Greece is concerned. What it’s done is left people here with a deep distrust of the police, a distrust entirely justified by the fact that not only does the Greek police engage in tactics more appropriate for a totalitarian regime (the difference is, the violence is not institutionalized, but ‘isolated’ accidents), but the fact that they always get away with (at best) a slap on the wrist shows them that they are, in fact, above the law. Don’t take me at my word: check out Amnesty International’s report on Greek police practices.
The rage over this boy’s death is about the fact that he was shot for no other reason than a trigger-happy cop took the police’s mission of cleaning out the ‘undesirable’ (that label including: students, leftists, Goths, anarchists, artists, activists, school kids and oh, anybody who might decided to go there for a drink, such as yours truly, every other weekend) too far. It’s about the fact he walked away and tried to conceal the shooting from his superiors. It’s about the fact it has happened before (http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2008/12/102081.html). And very likely, will happen again.
But of course it’s not just about this particular shooting, or police state-sponsored thuggery and impunity. Many news abroad have made references to ‘corruption and political scandals’ of this government-but this doesn’t quite cover the running joke that Greek public life has become. State frauds, massive corporate frauds (with political backing), the Greek church selling off state property with the State’s backing, shady business dealings…and that’s just the last six months or so. With absolutely zero accountability or even an admission of a screw up. People have asked the (not unreasonable) question of we just don’t vote them out-not realizing that all-encompassing corruption in Greece is a truly bipartisan sport. The Opposition, which has been sprouting righteous rhetoric and unrest over the boy’s shooting…were the ones in charge in 1985 where the cop who shot the other 15-year-old walked free. And when I hear Americans complain about two generations of Bushes in power or Hilary attempting to succeed her husband, I want to laugh: Nepotism? We’ve had various members of the TWO same families in power for most of the last 30 years. And then of course there’s massive unemployment, the economy, education, social security, healthcare overwhelming problems that nobody seems to want to even TRY to fix (you might have heard about the massive forest fires in Greece last summer: we’re STILL holding our breath over restorations, both environmental and financial to the victims).
Sorry for going on and on. I’m just trying to illustrate why people have taken to the street (and not just students/school kids: it’s trade unions, teachers, parents who to live in terror every time their kid walks out the door, the unemployed/disenfranchised, and plenty of ordinary citizens who’ve had enough). But of course youth is at the centre of it, as it should be. They haven’t made their peace that it doesn’t matter if they study/work hard/attempt to excel within a system that’s rigged for them to fail. Frankly, I hope they never do.
1/2
Date: 2008-12-22 06:55 am (UTC)Please don't worry about "going on and on." It doesn't matter how much I read; I keep wanting more.
The conflicting information from various reports has been one problem. It took me a couple of days to feel like I had any sense at all of what had happened. I wasn't sure how to react to some articles saying that a policeman had fired warning shots against a mob of thirty-plus attackers versus others saying that the officer had practically hunted down the student. I assumed the truth was somewhere in the middle, but that's an awfully large middle. (It's also been an exercise in ignoring my usual cultural frame of reference. Here, when people say they hate the cops, they generally get ignored. There are occasions where specific officers screw up to the point of brutality, but mostly the cops are the good side. Back in the beginning my first reaction to all the anti-police sentiment was along the lines of, "but they must be exaggerating." Then I started to realise they weren't exaggerating.)
I read something about a particular Greek official being concerned about Greece's reputation being "tarnished" in the eyes of foreign nations. But I definitely don't think worse of Greece. (Okay, I do think worse of the government, but that appears to be deserved. So.) I feel like it's been revealed to me as being a hell of a lot more than feta cheese and pretty beaches. If I am looking at the "true Greece," I like it. I admire the strength and courage of those protestors. I'm wavering among "I could never do that" and "I wish I could do that" and "I'm glad I don't have to do that" and "I wish I knew whether I would do that if I had to." But it boils down to, damn have you got some strong citizens.
And I have just begun digging into Amnesty International's information. Ho. Ly. Shit.
the fact that they always get away with (at best) a slap on the wrist
Hey, about that--what on earth is a "suspended sentence"? Does that even affect them in the slightest? Or is it just saying, "Here's what we'd do to you if we gave a damn, but we don't, so you can just go"?
Exarchia (if I'm spelling it right? I've seen a few different spellings...) sounds remarkably like a certain section of where I live. I go there a lot because it's where you go if you don't completely fit (or want to fit) into Polite Society, or you want to have a drink, or a war protest, or perhaps all three. Maybe that's a piece of why this has clicked with me. When I read about Alexandros being shot in Exarchia, I imagined me or my friends being shot in our place. It hasn't happened, but if this can happen, maybe that could too.
2/2
Date: 2008-12-22 06:56 am (UTC)It’s about the fact he walked away and tried to conceal the shooting from his superiors
That is actually the first I'd heard of that. SERIOUSLY? Jesus.
To your second-to-last paragraph: this is not stuff that shows up in US history books or television programs. And I wonder why have I never caught on to this until now? In the beginning of this, I said something to my mom about how I didn't understand the riots and wondered why there couldn't just be an election. But I'm getting a clearer picture. I don't think I can say "I understand" because...I can't even get my head around it completely. It's so far outside my everyday reality, where if you don't like it, you can raise some hell, and/or vote for the right people, and it will change at some point in the near future. It's not that I'm unaware of situations like dictatorships, juntas, etc., but I didn't ever connect "bad government system" with Greece. Whenever Greece gets mentioned, it's like, oh, Greece? Yeah, they invented democracy. Greece is awesome. Until now, I think the general public's concept of Greece has been riding on common knowledge of ancient Greece. ...Plus feta cheese and pretty beaches.
They haven’t made their peace that it doesn’t matter if they study/work hard/attempt to excel within a system that’s rigged for them to fail.
I think that is another reason this strikes me. Okay, so my generation did get together and elect Obama. Yay! But what have we all done for our own cities lately? Hell, for our own neighborhoods? We want change but we don't always want to fight for it. We love to ask other people to fight for us. I'm incriminating myself as much as other people, here. A large part of it is that I can see the problems, but I have no idea where to start fixing them. Suddenly I'm seeing people my age (as well as other ages, yes) standing up to fix something so hugely messed up that I can't imagine it. That is what I admire. I see broken areas of my country and tend to think, oh well, the politicians will fix it! But...maybe I'm stronger than I think. Maybe my whole generation is. Maybe we just aren't under enough pressure yet. (I had a weird reaction to the riots. I had this crazy strong urge to go get on a plane to Greece and do something. Perhaps it's a misdirected "do something" urge. There are things to do here, there are battles here. Somehow I don't think Greece is my battle. But I still wish I could get on that plane. People like me are doing something, why can't I?)
My mind feels like it's in knots. I keep talking but I don't know how much sense any of it is making.
Re: 2/2
Date: 2008-12-22 08:13 am (UTC)Well, most european news sources give vague "Greece's current government in the midst of political/corruption scandals' quotes, and really, I don't expect them to take a crash course of Greek political life to write an article. We've been getting this info over a looong period here, and I still have trouble keeping up.
but I didn't ever connect "bad government system" with Greece. Whenever Greece gets mentioned, it's like, oh, Greece? Yeah, they invented democracy.
Bear in mind that the modern independent Greek state has only existed since the mid-18th century (before that, it was 400 years under Ottoman rule). And since, we've had some major Balkan wars, a war with the Turks, two world wars (with a dictatorship in between), and a junta. To say nothing of being a pawn in games played on a major bigger board. Those things leave behind a certain mentality in government and society than isn't easy to just shrug off-there's been ups and downs, politically (obviously, right now is not a high point)
And yeah, kudos on Obama, but I'd be wary of anyone hailing him as a solution to all problems (well, maybe a solution to grammar abuse by US presidents).
Also, about most cops in the US being essentially good guys...hm. I have a lot of American friends who would strongly disagree with the statement. If I were you, I'd research that statement a bit.
I sympathize about the mind in knots thing. As for wanting to do something-well, between the recession and global problems the current generation is facing, there's no shortage of possible things to get mad about anywhere in the world. As long as we're not lulled to a sense of compacency and apathy, I have to believe things can because even a little less bleak.
To borrow something I heard a former University dean say on TV the other day: "There's no such thing as heaven. Let's work on making hell a little bit better.'
Re: 2/2
Date: 2008-12-22 04:33 pm (UTC)Yeah, that's rather hard to explain away. (I'm curious, what do you think of that ballistics report that said the bullet was dented? Would it be unusual for someone to lie about whether it was dented, or are the autopsy/ballistics investigators also corrupt?)
it's so chilled, inclusive and unpretentious
Oh, how terribly dangerous that must be.
"Greece's current government in the midst of political/corruption scandals"
That's the kind of quote I hear. US political scandals often are along the lines of "That official cheated on his wife! With a MAN!" Which is completely the wrong frame of reference... :p
I'd be wary of anyone hailing him as a solution to all problems
I had to be careful during the campaigns, because I wanted so badly for him to solve all my problems. I want to believe he'll be able to carry out all of his promises, but I keep having to remind myself that's not realistic. I think he is a decent human being and will be a good president, but he's still not some magic problem-solver. I do appreciate his care with grammar. ;p
Ah, I didn't mean cops in the entire US--sorry. That was not clear at all. I mean that in my immediate area, nobody's scared of the police. They're definitely not perfect. Sometimes they do fuck up very badly (plus some of them have a disturbing tendency to be extra-suspicious of people who aren't white), but generally they just do what they're expected to do, which is catch people who actually do break the law. People can hold protests without worrying about getting beaten up. (More often, cops get sent to protests to protect the protestors from getting attacked by other people.) When people in my part of the city say, "I hate cops," it's usually because they got a ticket for speeding. Our cops do seem to enjoy filling quotas by setting speed traps, but that's still not close to brutal power-tripping. I'm faintly aware of police brutality as a thing that happens more often in other places in the US, but I can't point to specific Other Places. Research will commence now, because I'm curious and may be slightly obsessed about knowing what is going on at every moment in every part of the world, including my part of it.
"There's no such thing as heaven. Let's work on making hell a little bit better.'
I love that.
Re: 2/2
Date: 2008-12-23 11:27 am (UTC)That's the first I heard of it-no idea, honestly. Actually, I'm glad I was too busy to reply before, because I just saw on the Greek websites the initial site forensics report came out, and it showed the cop shot straight ahead at the teens, and not on the air, like the police claimed.
Research will commence now, because I'm curious and may be slightly obsessed about knowing what is going on at every moment in every part of the world, including my part of it.
You should. Information is power, and you can lead to constructive action.
Anyway, I really enjoyed our conversation. :)
Re: 1/2
Date: 2008-12-22 07:55 am (UTC)The thing is, there were quite a few eyewitnesses-and not just the boy's friends, but random people on the street, including a doctor who rushed to his side as soon as he heard the shot and found him already dead.
Here's a summary from interviews I've heard/articles I've read: the cops got into a verbal altercation with the group of kids. One of the kids *might* (according to some witnesses) have hurled a plastic water bottle in the cops' direction. Which was when one of them took out the gun and shot at the kid (he claimed he shot in the air, several witnesses say he clearly aimed at the kid). They then proceeded to turn their backs (although they claimed they felt 'threatened' by the kids) and calmly walk back to their patrol car, while the other kids were shouting that the boy wasn't moving.
By law, cops are required to report when they've used a weapon, yet when they radioed the station, they kept quiet, hoping they wouldn't be identified.
And this is what gets me: this wasn't some empty dark backstreet. It's one of the most lively places in Athens, with lots of bars, cafes, clubs...there were people all around.
I read something about a particular Greek official being concerned about Greece's reputation being "tarnished" in the eyes of foreign nations. But I definitely don't think worse of Greece. (Okay, I do think worse of the government, but that appears to be deserved. So.) I feel like it's been revealed to me as being a hell of a lot more than feta cheese and pretty beaches. If I am looking at the "true Greece," I like it. I admire the strength and courage of those protestors. I'm wavering among "I could never do that" and "I wish I could do that" and "I'm glad I don't have to do that" and "I wish I knew whether I would do that if I had to." But it boils down to, damn have you got some strong citizens.
Well, I'm sure it spoiled a lot of people's perception of Greece, but I find myself unable to give a fuck. ;) And we've had quite a tempestuous modern history (well, ancient too, come to think of it), so we're not exactly strangers to strife. You could say we're used to it. After the riots broke out, I got literally dozens of paniqued messages from friends (online and RL) abroad asking me if everything was alright, and I had to reassure them that really, it's not a big deal. I mean, it is, but we're not exactly running around like the sky is falling.
Hey, about that--what on earth is a "suspended sentence"? Does that even affect them in the slightest? Or is it just saying, "Here's what we'd do to you if we gave a damn, but we don't, so you can just go"?
Pretty much. Recently the 'convictions' for some riot police who beat a protesters so severely two years ago he was left with permanent damage (not to mention serious PTSD): a monetary fine. Which, over a couple of years, works out to about 5 euros a day. No discharge, or anything. To quote a comedian of ours: "Does that mean if I give 5 euros a day, I get to beat anyone I know into a bloody pulp?"
Exarchia (if I'm spelling it right? I've seen a few different spellings...) sounds remarkably like a certain section of where I live. I go there a lot because it's where you go if you don't completely fit (or want to fit) into Polite Society, or you want to have a drink, or a war protest, or perhaps all three. Maybe that's a piece of why this has clicked with me. When I read about Alexandros being shot in Exarchia, I imagined me or my friends being shot in our place. It hasn't happened, but if this can happen, maybe that could too.
That sounds about right. It's my favourite place to go because it's so chilled, inclusive and unpretentious, the complete antitheses of poseur-filled mainstream bars. And yes, a lot of people here are *painfully* aware that it could have been any one of us.
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Date: 2008-12-22 08:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-22 10:03 am (UTC)I did mean in general. I'm well aware there are exceptions.
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Date: 2008-12-22 09:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-23 11:31 am (UTC)There's been some ripple effect already. In France, Sarkozy was forced to postpone his educational reform for another year, because (as he specifically admitted), he was worried that the country-wide discontent over them might lead to something like the situation in Greece.
And really, a lot of the issues at the heart of people's anger are global. I would not be surprised at all if more people around the world started expressing their discontent.
Anyone know what is happening in Greece now?
Date: 2008-12-29 05:43 am (UTC)Re: Anyone know what is happening in Greece now?
Date: 2009-01-01 10:45 am (UTC)Re: Anyone know what is happening in Greece now?
Date: 2009-01-03 04:25 am (UTC)