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In which I ramble and ramble and ramble
Star Trek has eaten my brain.
That’s still no excuse for giving in to my masochistic tendencies and reading![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
startrek posts, especially gems like this, not to mention the unusually quotient of misogyny and racism fail. Mind you, it just makes me happy to be a fan now as opposed to a couple of decades ago. For all of fandom’s current flaws (and they are legion!), I have the feeling it would have made me headdesk a lot more when it was more of a fanboys club.
After I stopped laughing at the post, it led me to some thoughts on geekiness in general which led to thinking about Uhura in the Star Trek film and, well. Thank God for lj cuts.
We don’t have a word for ‘geek’ in Greek. We have the equivalent for ‘nerd’ in the sense of spending an inordinate amount of time on studying, but the clear definition of geekiness and association with traits like lack of popularity/ a certain expected appearance/ poor social skills is something I was introduced to through US media. Not saying they weren’t popularity disparities in the schools I attended, but they weren’t particularly structured or dependent on any one thing, so the concept of being automatically labeled as anything just because you’re crazy about LotR eludes me – one of the‘popular’ girls in my class when I was 15 was crazy smart and into fantasy books. She was also into snorting coke, hooking up with her boyfriend at random school locations, and fully embracing the grungy, oversized sweater, “I just got out of bed and am too cool for a hairbrush” look (as was I-the look thing, not the coke or doing of guys, especially not her boyfriend, she would have CUT me). Maybe I’ve got it completely wrong, of course-I don’t think media depictions of US highschools are a completely accurate reflection of the reality (for one thing, I imagine actual schools are populated by teenagers rather than actors in their twenties), but is there a basis on the showing interest in geeky things=instant social ostracism thing? (Also, do your proms always end with a synchronized dance number? Because that’s…kind of cool. And how exactly do you reconcile the dichotomy between abstinence-only education and controlling teenage girls’ sexuality in all forms while continuing the ‘wholesome’ tradition of putting them in the tight, revealing fetishist’s dream that are cheerleader outfits and having them perform suggestive numbers in front of the their peers and their peers’ middle-aged dads? I always wondered about that!)
Whether the construction of the geek concept is entirely accurate or not, it’s certainly out there in popular culture. And then there’s things like this:
Trying to ignore the pretty, pretty actors for a moment (ok, let’s not, for they are very pretty. Done? Ok, let’s move on), I found the headline interesting. There’s no denying of either the implicit condescension towards ‘geeks’ or the fact it seems to give ‘permission’ to the rest to enjoy Trek.
But is the phenomenon of boosting geekery into the mainstream, however ephemerally, necessarily a bad thing? Isn’t it a bit ridiculous, even among adults, that certain interests automatically conjure up tired stereotypes? Over the years I’ve had to repeatedly bite my tongue in non-fannish online venues, not because I’m ashamed of my fannish interest (I’ve told RL friends about reading gay erotica about Harry Potter characters online without blinking. They don’t get it, but they mostly just shrug it off as “one of those quirky things S. does”), but because I didn’t feel like getting into constant fights about how actually, it’s not just 13-year old girls who are into fanfiction, Sci Fi fans aren’t just balding guys in the forties living in their mum’s basements, and there is no automatic link between a fannish streak and how one behaves in social situations. Not that there’s anything wrong with 13-year-old fanfic writers (obviously not my cuppa, but there’s an audience for it), people over a certain age living with their parents (hey, it’s a big mean recession out there) or social akwardness, but it baffles me that they’re assumed to be an inherent part of geekery.
And before I get too “Oh, woe, those mean mundanes don’t understaaaaaand”, it can go both ways. Fandom is not innocent of buying into the stereotype of what people like ‘us’ can be like. Fans are earn their geek cred. Fans have a proven and documented knowledge of the source canon, otherwise they’re just in it for the fad. Oldschool > New School (Trek, Doctor Who, though oddly enough, not so much Galactica). The majority of a TV show/movie/audience should be dismissed and handwaved away as not in it, since only actively engaging in fandom=proving your love for the sources. Fans are rarely into the music or celebrities the mainstream loves in a non-ironic fashion, unless they’re writing RPS about them. Then it’s ok.
Those definitions can go from the silly to the not at all funny: according to a popular sci-fi writer, fans have apparently been until recently overwhelmingly white. (If you’ve managed to miss this latest round of epic racist behaviour from SF authors and their cluless thread, here’s where to get caught up on Mamooth!Fail)
It got me thinking about movie!Uhura (because like I said, my brain is currently Trek central) and some of the negative reactions I’ve been seeing online. I’ve seen everything from “whore”, to “Mary Sue”, to ‘just a love interest’ and so on. I suppose I could voice my objections in comments to every single one of those posts but that would be a)counterproductive b)unnecessarily argumentative and c)from a time management perspective, kind of CRAZY. So here are my thoughts on yaoi, for everybody who hasn’t given up reading ages ago:
1.“Whore”: WHAT? Seriously, which orifice did they pull that from? While I find calling, say, Gwen from Torchwood equally loathsome in the any gendered insults on women’s sexuality way, Gwen at least engaged in some potentially ill-advised sexual behaviour on the show (but then, so did EVERYBODY. So to hear Gwen characterized the “the whore of Cardiff” from fans of Jack “I never met a lifeform I didn’t try to shag” Harkness and Ianto “I use my sexual wiles to get a position on Torchwood in order to help keep my robotic girlfriend alive” Jones is a bit rich. Especially when those same fans proceed to woobify the resident date rapist, Owen).
But with Uhura? Apparently the evidence of her ‘whore’ status came from….I actually have NO idea. Wearing the regulation uniform miniskirt? Being amused at Kirk’s inept flirting at the bar rather than clutching her pears in horror? Having a relationship with her instructor (not the best idea, but given that Spock is the one in the position of authority in this, I’ve seen a surprising lack of “Spock is a WHORE” posts). Seriously, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind this and no, “She got icky girl cooties in my slash” is not an acceptable answer.
2.“Mary Sue”: Yes, movie!Uhura is allowed to do a lot more than TOS Uhura, nobody’s disputing that. But leaving aside that the increased role could easily be fanwanked away within the show’s canon considering the alternate timeline and all the small and major ways it could be different, it’s also incredibly short-sighted to overlook the role that the overwhelming racism and sexism of the era played in not allowing Roddenberry to write the character he wanted. Just listen to Nichelle Nichols talk on the subject:
So yes, nu!Trek updated Uhura, not to make her somehow MORE magically awesome than the rest of the crew, but to bring her to equal footing. Are those people whining about accuracy also missing the random female extras in the original whose primary function seemed to be bringing trays of food to Kirk on the bridge (been watching TOS lately, WTF was that? In the spaceships of the future…there are stewardesses).
And movie Uhura performs admirably in her field, much like everybody in the cast. Sure, she’s very GOOD at it but then, so is everyone of the main cast. Sulu traded his fencing sword for the extendable katana of badassery, Kirk can apparently catch a man in freefall (and do it sexily), Chekov is the Doogie Howser of technobabble, the Federation just gave a freakin’ ship and ranks to a bunch of CADETS, it’s not a documentary!
3. “Just a love interest”: *massages temples* This one is often a few paragraphs under the Mary Sue accusation. So apparently Uhura was supposed to do less…except she was supposed to do more! Often combined with the “no strong female characters in the movie” argument (which is not without merits, but when aimed at Uhura, makes flames appear on the side of my face). I missed the memo that strong female character=necessarily kicking physical ass. First off, exactly three members of the crew got to kick ass here: Kirk (he also got to have his ass kicked a lot, bless him), Spock (see previous comment about Kirk getting his ass kicked) and Sulu (sexiest fight scene of all!). The rest contributed by using their mental muscles, which I thought was something we appreciated in fandom? A character who seems utterly devoted to her studies to the point where she translates transmissions for fun seems on paper to be someone who ought to hit all the fangeek identification buttons, doesn’t she?
As for the romance plotline…I’m tired of the attitude that a female character daring to be anything but utterly sexless somehow makes her less than. The double standard is everywhere-it’s why all Star Trek captains were allowed to get it on with random alien babes (ok, not so much Picard, but he did get some action, and there was the Crusher thing) or, in Sisko’s case, even have a *gasp* long-term relationship and family while poor Janeway's utter score card from seven years of Voyager amounted to a relationship when her memory was erased (which of course ended as soon as she gained her memory), a flirtation/mind game with an alien for the sole purpose of smuggling some refugees under his nose (yes, I’ve watched all Voyager eps repeatedly, don’t judge me), an actual freakin' arc of a relationship with a HOLOGRAM that led her to endangering the lives of her crew (because teh wimminz, they are emotional!) and that UST with Chakotay that never went anywhere (to add insult to injury, he ended up with Seven-yes, let’s pair up the two people Kathryn Janeway had the most chemistry with, to make it abundantly clear she's not getting laid anytime soon).
The storyline could have been handled very badly if they’d presented her as some kind of prize to be won by one of the male leads. That wasn’t the case at all-Kirk flirted with her because he’s Kirk, he’d flirt with a rock. There was no antagonist vibe from him-he got over his shock at Vulcan sexytimes in two seconds flat and went on to teasing Spock (and now I want to read fic where he does that, a lot, possibly joined by Bones, while Uhura glares daggers at him, Sulu tries to keep from cracking up and Chekov is flushed and looking down at the console and singing “La la la” in his head, and of course this will all be happening on the bridge, because did I mention a large chunk of them are practically babies?).
So sure, a lot of the Uhura bashing is followed up by wishing we got to see other female characters from classic Trek like Nurse Chapel or that assistant of Kirk’s with the insane beehive (I’m assuming you’ll want them to be completely accurate reflections of their TOS selves, including pining after Spock and Kirk, being talked down to by everybody in a way that TOS Uhura actually wasn’t, and walking around holding serving trays with their asses hanging out, right?), Number One (ok, that would be awesomesauce. There’s always the next movie) or creating more female Starfleet captains (apparently staying true to old canon is not so much as issue there).
I’d love to see more female characters in the sequels. Meanwhile, I’m grateful for Uhura, who presents a less flashy but far more relatable way of kicking ass (language geeks FTW!), who actually strikes a work-life balance and shows that maybe, just maybe, dangly earrings, impractical hair and wearing the hell out of a miniskirt doesn’t mean you aren’t, in fact, a gigantic geek.
That’s still no excuse for giving in to my masochistic tendencies and reading
startrek posts, especially gems like this, not to mention the unusually quotient of misogyny and racism fail. Mind you, it just makes me happy to be a fan now as opposed to a couple of decades ago. For all of fandom’s current flaws (and they are legion!), I have the feeling it would have made me headdesk a lot more when it was more of a fanboys club.After I stopped laughing at the post, it led me to some thoughts on geekiness in general which led to thinking about Uhura in the Star Trek film and, well. Thank God for lj cuts.
We don’t have a word for ‘geek’ in Greek. We have the equivalent for ‘nerd’ in the sense of spending an inordinate amount of time on studying, but the clear definition of geekiness and association with traits like lack of popularity/ a certain expected appearance/ poor social skills is something I was introduced to through US media. Not saying they weren’t popularity disparities in the schools I attended, but they weren’t particularly structured or dependent on any one thing, so the concept of being automatically labeled as anything just because you’re crazy about LotR eludes me – one of the‘popular’ girls in my class when I was 15 was crazy smart and into fantasy books. She was also into snorting coke, hooking up with her boyfriend at random school locations, and fully embracing the grungy, oversized sweater, “I just got out of bed and am too cool for a hairbrush” look (as was I-the look thing, not the coke or doing of guys, especially not her boyfriend, she would have CUT me). Maybe I’ve got it completely wrong, of course-I don’t think media depictions of US highschools are a completely accurate reflection of the reality (for one thing, I imagine actual schools are populated by teenagers rather than actors in their twenties), but is there a basis on the showing interest in geeky things=instant social ostracism thing? (Also, do your proms always end with a synchronized dance number? Because that’s…kind of cool. And how exactly do you reconcile the dichotomy between abstinence-only education and controlling teenage girls’ sexuality in all forms while continuing the ‘wholesome’ tradition of putting them in the tight, revealing fetishist’s dream that are cheerleader outfits and having them perform suggestive numbers in front of the their peers and their peers’ middle-aged dads? I always wondered about that!)
Whether the construction of the geek concept is entirely accurate or not, it’s certainly out there in popular culture. And then there’s things like this:
Trying to ignore the pretty, pretty actors for a moment (ok, let’s not, for they are very pretty. Done? Ok, let’s move on), I found the headline interesting. There’s no denying of either the implicit condescension towards ‘geeks’ or the fact it seems to give ‘permission’ to the rest to enjoy Trek.
But is the phenomenon of boosting geekery into the mainstream, however ephemerally, necessarily a bad thing? Isn’t it a bit ridiculous, even among adults, that certain interests automatically conjure up tired stereotypes? Over the years I’ve had to repeatedly bite my tongue in non-fannish online venues, not because I’m ashamed of my fannish interest (I’ve told RL friends about reading gay erotica about Harry Potter characters online without blinking. They don’t get it, but they mostly just shrug it off as “one of those quirky things S. does”), but because I didn’t feel like getting into constant fights about how actually, it’s not just 13-year old girls who are into fanfiction, Sci Fi fans aren’t just balding guys in the forties living in their mum’s basements, and there is no automatic link between a fannish streak and how one behaves in social situations. Not that there’s anything wrong with 13-year-old fanfic writers (obviously not my cuppa, but there’s an audience for it), people over a certain age living with their parents (hey, it’s a big mean recession out there) or social akwardness, but it baffles me that they’re assumed to be an inherent part of geekery.
And before I get too “Oh, woe, those mean mundanes don’t understaaaaaand”, it can go both ways. Fandom is not innocent of buying into the stereotype of what people like ‘us’ can be like. Fans are earn their geek cred. Fans have a proven and documented knowledge of the source canon, otherwise they’re just in it for the fad. Oldschool > New School (Trek, Doctor Who, though oddly enough, not so much Galactica). The majority of a TV show/movie/audience should be dismissed and handwaved away as not in it, since only actively engaging in fandom=proving your love for the sources. Fans are rarely into the music or celebrities the mainstream loves in a non-ironic fashion, unless they’re writing RPS about them. Then it’s ok.
Those definitions can go from the silly to the not at all funny: according to a popular sci-fi writer, fans have apparently been until recently overwhelmingly white. (If you’ve managed to miss this latest round of epic racist behaviour from SF authors and their cluless thread, here’s where to get caught up on Mamooth!Fail)
It got me thinking about movie!Uhura (because like I said, my brain is currently Trek central) and some of the negative reactions I’ve been seeing online. I’ve seen everything from “whore”, to “Mary Sue”, to ‘just a love interest’ and so on. I suppose I could voice my objections in comments to every single one of those posts but that would be a)counterproductive b)unnecessarily argumentative and c)from a time management perspective, kind of CRAZY. So here are my thoughts on yaoi, for everybody who hasn’t given up reading ages ago:
1.“Whore”: WHAT? Seriously, which orifice did they pull that from? While I find calling, say, Gwen from Torchwood equally loathsome in the any gendered insults on women’s sexuality way, Gwen at least engaged in some potentially ill-advised sexual behaviour on the show (but then, so did EVERYBODY. So to hear Gwen characterized the “the whore of Cardiff” from fans of Jack “I never met a lifeform I didn’t try to shag” Harkness and Ianto “I use my sexual wiles to get a position on Torchwood in order to help keep my robotic girlfriend alive” Jones is a bit rich. Especially when those same fans proceed to woobify the resident date rapist, Owen).
But with Uhura? Apparently the evidence of her ‘whore’ status came from….I actually have NO idea. Wearing the regulation uniform miniskirt? Being amused at Kirk’s inept flirting at the bar rather than clutching her pears in horror? Having a relationship with her instructor (not the best idea, but given that Spock is the one in the position of authority in this, I’ve seen a surprising lack of “Spock is a WHORE” posts). Seriously, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind this and no, “She got icky girl cooties in my slash” is not an acceptable answer.
2.“Mary Sue”: Yes, movie!Uhura is allowed to do a lot more than TOS Uhura, nobody’s disputing that. But leaving aside that the increased role could easily be fanwanked away within the show’s canon considering the alternate timeline and all the small and major ways it could be different, it’s also incredibly short-sighted to overlook the role that the overwhelming racism and sexism of the era played in not allowing Roddenberry to write the character he wanted. Just listen to Nichelle Nichols talk on the subject:
So yes, nu!Trek updated Uhura, not to make her somehow MORE magically awesome than the rest of the crew, but to bring her to equal footing. Are those people whining about accuracy also missing the random female extras in the original whose primary function seemed to be bringing trays of food to Kirk on the bridge (been watching TOS lately, WTF was that? In the spaceships of the future…there are stewardesses).
And movie Uhura performs admirably in her field, much like everybody in the cast. Sure, she’s very GOOD at it but then, so is everyone of the main cast. Sulu traded his fencing sword for the extendable katana of badassery, Kirk can apparently catch a man in freefall (and do it sexily), Chekov is the Doogie Howser of technobabble, the Federation just gave a freakin’ ship and ranks to a bunch of CADETS, it’s not a documentary!
3. “Just a love interest”: *massages temples* This one is often a few paragraphs under the Mary Sue accusation. So apparently Uhura was supposed to do less…except she was supposed to do more! Often combined with the “no strong female characters in the movie” argument (which is not without merits, but when aimed at Uhura, makes flames appear on the side of my face). I missed the memo that strong female character=necessarily kicking physical ass. First off, exactly three members of the crew got to kick ass here: Kirk (he also got to have his ass kicked a lot, bless him), Spock (see previous comment about Kirk getting his ass kicked) and Sulu (sexiest fight scene of all!). The rest contributed by using their mental muscles, which I thought was something we appreciated in fandom? A character who seems utterly devoted to her studies to the point where she translates transmissions for fun seems on paper to be someone who ought to hit all the fangeek identification buttons, doesn’t she?
As for the romance plotline…I’m tired of the attitude that a female character daring to be anything but utterly sexless somehow makes her less than. The double standard is everywhere-it’s why all Star Trek captains were allowed to get it on with random alien babes (ok, not so much Picard, but he did get some action, and there was the Crusher thing) or, in Sisko’s case, even have a *gasp* long-term relationship and family while poor Janeway's utter score card from seven years of Voyager amounted to a relationship when her memory was erased (which of course ended as soon as she gained her memory), a flirtation/mind game with an alien for the sole purpose of smuggling some refugees under his nose (yes, I’ve watched all Voyager eps repeatedly, don’t judge me), an actual freakin' arc of a relationship with a HOLOGRAM that led her to endangering the lives of her crew (because teh wimminz, they are emotional!) and that UST with Chakotay that never went anywhere (to add insult to injury, he ended up with Seven-yes, let’s pair up the two people Kathryn Janeway had the most chemistry with, to make it abundantly clear she's not getting laid anytime soon).
The storyline could have been handled very badly if they’d presented her as some kind of prize to be won by one of the male leads. That wasn’t the case at all-Kirk flirted with her because he’s Kirk, he’d flirt with a rock. There was no antagonist vibe from him-he got over his shock at Vulcan sexytimes in two seconds flat and went on to teasing Spock (and now I want to read fic where he does that, a lot, possibly joined by Bones, while Uhura glares daggers at him, Sulu tries to keep from cracking up and Chekov is flushed and looking down at the console and singing “La la la” in his head, and of course this will all be happening on the bridge, because did I mention a large chunk of them are practically babies?).
So sure, a lot of the Uhura bashing is followed up by wishing we got to see other female characters from classic Trek like Nurse Chapel or that assistant of Kirk’s with the insane beehive (I’m assuming you’ll want them to be completely accurate reflections of their TOS selves, including pining after Spock and Kirk, being talked down to by everybody in a way that TOS Uhura actually wasn’t, and walking around holding serving trays with their asses hanging out, right?), Number One (ok, that would be awesomesauce. There’s always the next movie) or creating more female Starfleet captains (apparently staying true to old canon is not so much as issue there).
I’d love to see more female characters in the sequels. Meanwhile, I’m grateful for Uhura, who presents a less flashy but far more relatable way of kicking ass (language geeks FTW!), who actually strikes a work-life balance and shows that maybe, just maybe, dangly earrings, impractical hair and wearing the hell out of a miniskirt doesn’t mean you aren’t, in fact, a gigantic geek.
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She is competent, smart and beautiful. Something both men and women can feel threaten by. In our society unfortunately it's stereotypically more acceptable to be competent, smart and average looking or beautiful and not so smart. So of course Nyota Uhura is somewhat disturbing.
I got the Quinto Spock cover of EW not the Kirk Uhura one. I think I got the pretty one.
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I don't have either issue, so I'm jealous. And yes, Quinto!Spock would be my first choice too.
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But not her boss, who used to be her instructor, at a military academy: that's fail, with a side of fail, with fail sauce, and some extra fail thrown in for free. Unless you seriously believe gender relations by 2268 are so unproblematic that dating your teacher at a military academy is not career suicide, this is a stupid thing for her to do.
I don't think she's un-awesome. I love her. But I don't like this aspect of her character, and I sincerely, desperately hope that in future installments, she will see this for the dumb move that it is, and if I write her, I will in fact write her doing just that.
What would you think of a new TV show where the principles were a military team, consisting of a former instructor at West Point or Annapolis, two of his former students, and the female member of the team was also boinking him? Would that be omg awesome and cool? I don't expect the media to give me good role models or political correctness, they can do whatever they want. So can I in my own fiction, and I've certainly written a load of questionable shit. But she wasn't like that in the original, she was always professional in the original. She was sexy, certainly, and super competent, and I have no problem with her being even more super competent and out in the front and awesome and sexy while doing it. But must she put out for one of the leads in order to become one herself?
I am incredibly pleased that McCoy is taking a back seat and she's one of the three most important characters in the show. This is 100% awesome. And being a love interest for her former teacher at the military academy, while gross, does not take away from her competence. She should NOT be called a slut or a whore for making this incredibly dubious decision. Men get to fuck up all the time, but let's admit that it IS in fact fucking up on her part and on Spock's, not to mention arguably an abuse of power on his part.
And yes, I want Christine and Janice back, since we've got Chekov and he wasn't even in TOS till S2--without their goofy crushes--but I'll take them with, if that means Uhura can be divested of this massive amount of fail.
I loved Uhura so much as a little girl in the 1960s, and it's because of her, not K/S, that I'm unhappy about this 'romance'. (I actually never shipped K/S before this movie--as long as Kirk was Shatner, it was like shipping my DAD--and I didn't particularly want to ship K/S.)
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The relationship is problematic from a power standpoint (mind you, I don't particularly care. I ship Snape/Harry, so it'd be beyond hypocritical) and both that and not buying the actors' chemistry are perfectly good reason for not liking a pairing. Not that one NEEDS a perfectly good reason or justification for liking/disliking ANY pairing. Did I imply that it did? Hi, have me met? I'm not THAT fan!
My issue was the way some people expressed said dislike and the visciousness of Uhura attacks. It wasn't directed at anyone at my flist.
And I'd love to see Christine and Janice too-the updated version, because the original dynamics would be so offensive as to go into actual camp territory.
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I ship some student/teacher pairings but not others. Sometimes I ship things that I freely think and admit are totally morally wrong but hot anyway; and also, context matters.
In the WW the power dynamics are all completely fucked up and my HP shipping is all about the dirtywrongbadness. Starfleet seems like a military setting that has solved some of the moral problems in today's military so I'd rather not see that particular dynamic there. If they want to write it anyway, they have that right. I don't like it though.
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And why don't I have an Uhura icon?! *hands in air*
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Actually your AWESOME miniskirt post (that I forgot to comment in, gah!) is part of what inspired me to get my own rant on.
There can never be enough Uhura icons online!
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*finally drags self to bed*
*has no suitable icon*
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Glad you enjoyed!
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Also, I thank goodness I did not live in an area of the country where abstinence only education was popular. But from what I understand the way that works is that in places where they love abstinence only they tend to also have teen parents. So it works just the way you'd expect that to work!
And now let me talk about Uhura here, who was awesome. I read a review that was negative and one interesting thing was that the person thought Kirk was an ass especially because he hits on other guy's girlfriends. This was referring to the scene where Kirk sees that Spock is with Uhura and gets the 'I have nothing more to say about that' line. Now first, I didn't think Kirk was hitting on her at all there. It seemed like the two of them had settled into a comfortable non-romantic situation. Kirk is flirty, but he's neither trying to hit on her and take her from Spock, nor overly judgmental about the fact that she's chosen the brainy guy over him.
It just made me think about what you're talking about here, what seems to be the idea that a guy can't be flirty and also respect the woman as more than a sex object which depending on the guy I just think he can. Like sometimes the politician who's openly horny and sleeps around still has more genuine interest in protecting women's interests. It's not that I'm saying this is the way all guys--especially bosses--should be towards the women he works for, but those tihngs can certainly go together.
And again with the miniskirts. Okay, not only do I just think that look is kind of cool, but okay, I know that clothes say something. I hate those movies where, like, Julie Roberts wears low cut tops and then gets mad when people talk to her breasts. But fashion also is decided by the culture, and everything about that culture says to me that Uhura's dressed like an ordinary woman based on the fashion of her culture. So I've got her looking fine to me and fine to them-I got no problems!
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And abstinence-only education would be hilarious if you didn't consider the fallout. It makes me think of that lines in Mean Girls "Don't have sex, or you'll get pregnant. And DIE."
Kirk was an ass for many reasons throughout the film (in a loveable way though), but I don't think the transporter scene was one of them. It felt like a nice little moment of comic relief among the ACTIONANGSTACTION that was going on.
I've met a few guys who were unapologetic flirts/sex crazed and weren't actually so in a misogynistic way. It really depends on how it's done-only few can pull it off without coming off as sleazes, so most guys shouldn't even attempt it.
Good point on how tied up fashion is to the culture. I'd love to live in a culture where what you wear doesn't automatically make some kind of statement about you.
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I have to say that I think Captain Janeway didn't do that bad... she did have off spring w/Lt. Paris when they were both evolved (devolved?) into amphibian aliens in one confusing episode... and God knows Q would have gotten into her pants if she had given him half a chance! I just mean that Jean Luc Picard was on the air longer, and he didn't have very many relationships... more just flirting w/Dr. Crusher and maybe something more with the stellar cartographer Nella Daren, and definitely something more with Vosh.... Really, he was almost celibate!
I thought that Gene Roddenberry had learned his lesson: that he shouldn't have made Kirk such a huge space slut. But you gotta love the fact that Iowa is one of the first states w/same sex marriage and J. T. Kirk was born in Riverside, Iowa. That ends up being kind of a nice thing for slash writers.
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I really need to watch TNG at some point, I've only seen a handful.
That was my first thought when I saw Iowa onscreen too, LOL!
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ST:NG was my favorite show ever for decades, until Buffy came into my life. Of course the space slut on ST:NG was Deanna Troi, who seemed to have hot alien sex every other episode, had off spring at least once, and even caused conflict between Riker and Worf. But her Mom was one of my favorite characters (Mrs. Roddenberry was Lwaxanna Troi) so I couldn't hate her....
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I'm glad that her character worked for you. She came close for me but the way the Spock/Uhura thing was handled really grated :(
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Voyager sounds pretty interesting from what I see here. Must check it out.
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Also this obnoxious behavior as far as I can is not limited to gender, race, ethnicity, age, or nationality. I've met trolls of all creeds. LOL!
Anywho thanks for posting the video. I thought I had imagined it for a bit there. Uhura - it should be noted is one of my favorite characters, but she was underutilized in the series, had more to do in some of the movies (she has a great scene in either Search for Spock or the Voyage Home and Nichols is amazing), and was pretty good in the cartoon (which she did the voice for, I believe). I actually liked her and Spock together and I liked her in the movie - although I think Nichols performs the role better than the current actress but that's a subjective preference.
Don't understand the Mary Sue complaints? Uhura was a linguist who specialized in dialects, particularly Romulain and Vulcan.
She was the communications specialist. In later series - I believe they had her filled by Troy (in TNG). She wasn't good at other things - just translating and interpreting communications. It's not like she was skilled at hand to hand combat. And how is she any different than Sulu or Chekof?
In some respects the original characters were less Mary Suish than latter ones were - such as Seven of Nine - who could literally do everything. Although I never thought she was.
Sci-Fantasy Fandom has always bewildered me. I adore sci-fantasy, but I have a cranky relationship with the whole fandom thing. I just have no tolerance for all the bashing.
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Nichelle Nichols is simply amazing. I haven't watched the cartoon yet, but it's next on my list (after I get through the Original Series).
Don't understand the Mary Sue complaints? Uhura was a linguist who specialized in dialects, particularly Romulain and Vulcan.
She was the communications specialist. In later series - I believe they had her filled by Troy (in TNG). She wasn't good at other things - just translating and interpreting communications. It's not like she was skilled at hand to hand combat. And how is she any different than Sulu or Chekof?
She's a woman. Fandom traits that fandom finds adorable/sexy/forgivable in male characters, in female characters lead to Mary Sue accusations and the aforementioned bashing.
From dipping my toes in Sci-Fi fandom, it definitely has a different vibe from media fandom. I'm not sure why that is.
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I've noticed that. It's one of my issues with fandom. Discovered in the Buffy fandom - the number of fanfics that felt the need to weaken Buffy was alarming, the fact that they were written by women, more so. And Willow/Fred were constantly listed as Mary Sues, while Giles/Wesley who had similar attributes were not.
Saw it in BSG as well - the bashing that Laura Roslyn, Athena, and Starbuck got...was insane.
I remember having a rather vehement debate on a posting board back in the day, with a woman, about Buffy - and it turned into a fight about women's roles. Apparently she was defensive about being a navy wife, with no more than a high school education, and a mother - she felt that I was putting her down for that. I wasn't. I was merely stating that this is not the only role women have nor should it be.
From dipping my toes in Sci-Fi fandom, it definitely has a different vibe from media fandom. I'm not sure why that is.
The Trioka, Warren/Andrew and Jonathan is an excellent satirical take on the male sci-fantasy fandom. A lot of them are like that. Certainly were when I was in college and in every comic book/sci-fantasy book store that I have been in. It's why I always kept my sci-fantasy fetish to myself in school and didn't try to join the guys.
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And your early comments make me so glad I'm not in high school in the US right now. I would imagine that the increased social dichotomy between the sex sells media and the religious right would make that "damned if you do, damned if you don't" feeling that young girls have while growing up, even worse. But now many of them don't have sex education like my generation did. Thank goodness for the internet?
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The Internet might give them very confusing information though. Imagine a kid trying to figure it all out for the first time and googling 'sex'-yikes.
We didn't have sex ed in Greece in my day, but I my mother was very open about giving me info (I think I knew how babies were made by the time I was 4), and it was the height of AIDS awareness. I see all contraception discussion phrased in terms of pregnancy nowadays, and I just want to yell "But, but, what about STDs?"
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Things are so fucked up now. If I hadn't had sex ed, I would not have known half the things I did when I headed off to college. We had it every year from 6th grade to 12th for about 3 weeks. We had to learn all the reproductive organs, classifications of STDs and methods of transmission, how birth control worked, how to put on condoms, etc. All in a small rural town. I doubt they still do it. :/